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Disc brake conversion

Discussion in 'Stock 1991 - 1994 Explorers' started by Bunky1267, January 23, 2020.

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  1. MrQ

    MrQ Smokey the Clutch is, Missed Shift You Did Elite Explorer Moderator Emeritus

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    Interested in selling? :D
     
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  3. massacre

    massacre Elite Explorer

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    Every heavy truck and trailer uses drum brakes.
    If drum brakes were that terrible, I doubt that the heaviest vehicles on the road would use them. Granted, they are air brakes and driving on relatively flat ground.
    Air brake calipers are around but pretty new.
     
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  4. BKennedy

    BKennedy Elite Loser Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Actually, a lot of big rigs now use air actuated disc brakes. Most diesel pusher RV's have them as well. Drum brakes overheat and fade much faster than disc because the heat is trapped within the drum but comparing air brakes off a big rig to the rear drum brakes on a 1st generation Explorer is just silly.
     
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  5. massacre

    massacre Elite Explorer

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    not really a comparison, just saying drum brakes are not necessarily as terrible as everyone thinks. But discs are usually better.
    Also, I drive heavy trucks and as long as the brakes are properly adjusted and you know how to drive, you should not be having brake fade.
     
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  6. imp

    imp Well-Known Member

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    @massacre

    Yes, you are right! Discs, too, CAN fade! Here where we live, State Highway 68 Drops down from the Kingman, AZ end from Union Pass, 3700 feet altitude, to Bullhead City (Laughlin, NV), 500 feet altitude, over a distance of 12 miles. The average grade is 6%. So many trucks have lost brakes here over the years they have installed two "safety truck retarders".

    "SR 68 was a 2 lane highway and had a high grade going through the Black Mountains. The highway was expanded to 4 lanes in the mid-1990s and now has a smoother ride through the mountains. There are two runaway truck ramps at 6 and 10 miles westwards downhill from Union Pass."

    Moving here from Missouri, I guided my 28' Ford F-700 box truck down that grade around midnight, ever cautious, it was not new to me negotiating it. Truck has 429 gas, 385-Series engine, Allison 4-speed OD auto. It held 65 mph or less in "D", no braking at all. Over 20,000 lbs. cargo weight, Bridgeport Milling machine, lathe, band saw, welders, all my tools (~ 5000 lbs.), new 5.0HO V-8 complete, huge cherry picker, two full roll-arounds, double-stacked, ~ 50 packed boxes. Still, I am not a "trucker", never was, but have tried everything. BTW, the truck has discs up front, giant drums out back. imp
     
    Last edited: February 15, 2020 at 1:19 PM
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  7. massacre

    massacre Elite Explorer

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    Used to work with a complete dumbass who had no idea how to drive a stick. He drove for Verizon before and had only driven automatics.
    He used to burn through brakes faster than any other driver, even though he drove a shorter route than the other guys. (I was the only mechanic for a fleet of 30 fuel delivery trucks plus some heavy equipment and service vans). He also complained of smoke coming from the brakes and smell.
    Finally I had enough and said “guess what I’m going to ride along with you”

    Sure enough, he was not downshifting going down hills at all. He would freewheel the truck down a steep grade, then mash the pedal at the bottom of the hill completely overheating the brakes every time.
    Plus I was watching his feet, he was throttling up the truck and starting off in second with a FULL LOAD.
    Some people are just not truck drivers, but so many of them think they are lmao.

    Same guy blew up like 5 transmissions, spilled tons of fuel, almost flipped truck over several times, backed over gas pipes, almost killed me several times, and would pop a tire about every other day. Complete hack should have never been hired.
    Sad thing is he quit once a serious manager came in and started holding him accountable (unlike the other manager) but after the serious manager left, the company actually hired the same guy back. And he blew up even more stuff.

    I quit this company because of the lack of accountability of the drivers and how they were allowed to totally suck at life. Meanwhile if I did the slightest thing they didn’t like I would get my ass chewed out.
     
    Last edited: February 15, 2020 at 1:24 PM
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  8. waywaay

    waywaay New Member

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    Proven ?? How you mean ? Well I disagree that dos s are superiority in every way ...that is a silly statement....

    discs are better in high speed light duty applications but for heavy loads and low speeds drum are superior....try holding a 2 ton load on a hill with your discs Mr superior haha
     
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  9. massacre

    massacre Elite Explorer

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    The new air discs do work great though. First time I drove a 10 wheeler with air discs I couldn’t believe how good it stopped.
     
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  10. waywaay

    waywaay New Member

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    The Key is proper adjustment (As drums require regular adjustment and maintenance of the “self adjusters” ) and the real temptation for many to jump to discs is they too “tupid” to replace shoes let alone adjust them....and discs are comparatively simple when faced with a sophisticated drum system
     
  11. BKennedy

    BKennedy Elite Loser Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    So anyways, the original poster had his question answered. If you want to swap in rear disc brakes, the most economical and best way is to swap them off a 2nd Gen Explorer. All this disc/drum debate is minutia.

    This thread I posted a link too earlier is the most detailed on the forum.
     
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  12. massacre

    massacre Elite Explorer

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    the first sign that I have found for brakes being out of adjustment is spring brakes not holding on hills. That’s when you have to readjust brakes usually.
    I never really saw a “sophisticated” drum system, they are pretty simple. I have done a ton of brake jobs and they are all pretty much brake can, slack adjuster, S cam, rollers, shoes and springs. And drums obviously.
    Everything is way huge and heavy, but other than that it’s a little easier than car drums I think.
    Maintenance is huge, properly greased slack adjusters and S cams will make a world of difference
     
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  13. Josh P

    Josh P Shaggin Wagon Elite Explorer

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    I converted my aerostar van to disc brakes in the rear. I used the mustang cobra 11.65 rotors. It drastically improved the stopping. I deleted the defective rabs and installed an adjustable proportioning valve in its place. With the drums, I had the adjustable valve maxed out and with the discs, I could lock them up easily with the valve set to min.
     
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  14. massacre

    massacre Elite Explorer

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    Sorry for the air brakes hijack
     
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  15. imp

    imp Well-Known Member

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    @massacre

    Very little here qualifies for apology, IMO.
    imp
     
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  16. 410Fortune

    410Fortune Snow Season Staff Member Moderator

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    SORRRRYYYYY

    Im not selling my diff. I've kept it for years, moved it 1800 miles, scrapped 50 others diffs and kept this one! Someday I will have a reason to use the 4.56 ttb diff I have AND the 4.56 IFS diff I have (yes I have both, no they are not for sale!)
    Had to crush like 50 exploders to get these parts!
     
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  17. MrQ

    MrQ Smokey the Clutch is, Missed Shift You Did Elite Explorer Moderator Emeritus

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    I figured you wouldn't. Had to ask though. :thumbsup:
     
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  18. MrQ

    MrQ Smokey the Clutch is, Missed Shift You Did Elite Explorer Moderator Emeritus

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    *sigh* :banghead: > :dunno: >:burnout:
     
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  19. Rick

    Rick Pumpkin Pilot Staff Member Admin Elite Explorer

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    What you need to know about air disc brakes as they increase in popularity

    Over the past few years, the take rate of air disc brakes (ADBs) has been steadily growing. This growth has only accelerated recently, thanks in part to the fact that many truck OEMs have made air disc brakes standard equipment. International, Kenworth and Peterbilt are among the manufacturers who now offer ADBs as standard on their Class 8 models, and Freightliner Trucks recently announced that they will offer ADBs as standard on the new Cascadia beginning this spring.

    From an equipment spec’ing perspective, the difference between disc brakes and drum brakes is simple: Drum brakes cost less up front, but disc brakes provide better performance, including improved stopping distance, and a decreased need for maintenance. It seems that an increasing number of fleets are calculating that the trade-off is worth it, and OEMs are starting to do the same.

    ADB take rates are lower for trailers than for tractors, which has been true from the beginning. The brake manufacturers estimated that the number of trailers spec’d with ADBs is currently in the 12 to 15% range. However, the increased number of disc brakes on tractors is spurring more growth in the trailer market as well, especially from fleets spec’ing new trucks with ADBs as standard.

    “Disc brake penetration was higher on tractors even before some of these OEMs made disc brakes the standard offering,” says Jeff Wittlinger, business unit director of wheel-end and braking systems for Hendrickson. “As a result [of OEMs making ADBs standard], we are seeing more fleets experiment with disc on trailers.”

    “We are seeing more orders for disc brake trailers from fleets looking for a common platform across their fleet,” agrees Greg Cooper, product manager for disc brake systems with Stemco. “In fact, we expect about half of the trailer market to convert over the next 10 years.”

    Frankiewicz says that in Haldex’s view, the trailer segment will shift priorities to ADB very quickly, hitting 50% market share sometime around 2022-2023.

    International Trucks is one of the OEMs offering air disc brakes as standard—in this case on the Class 8 LT Series.

    Jim Nachtman, International’s heavy-duty product marketing director, says that the OEM “recognizes the clear advantages of ADB,” calling out the shorter stopping distance, reduced CSA violations and longer life of the brake pads as reasons International put ADBs in the standard position on the LT Series.

    Nachtman says that the reaction from fleets to having ADBs as standard equipment has been positive.

    “With safety and cost of ownership of paramount importance, fleets are recognizing the benefits of air disc brakes,” he says. “We are seeing air disc brakes rapidly growing in popularity in the regional haul RH Series as well. Overall, we anticipate that the popularity of air disc brakes will continue to increase.”
     
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  20. massacre

    massacre Elite Explorer

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    That’s a great copypasta
    Already said that air discs are great no question about that
    But it still relatively new technology
    I think it’s great that manufacturers are offering it
    But air drums are not useless by any means

    have you personally driven both systems?
     
  21. Rick

    Rick Pumpkin Pilot Staff Member Admin Elite Explorer

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    What stops airplanes?

    What stopped the space shuttle?

    Disc brake technology is not new in any transportation system.

    I was reading Diesel Equipment Superintendent in the '70s and the technology was already available. It just wasn't implemented because it was cost prohibitive. There are many more drawbacks to running drums, than discs, in every application.
     
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