Lucked out on a triple whammy

[blwnsmoke]

So my wife who drive's the Explorer noticed several months ago that at high speeds.. approximately 65mph and higher, there is a pretty good shake in the floor board of the Explorer. At first I thought front suspension components.. something is worn out because the alignment and steering wheel are off as well.

A family member has a fleet of Powerstrokes for his landscaping business and has an Ex For master Diesel tech working for him full time. I've known him for 20+ years so brought the Ex down to figure out what's wrong so we could get the parts ordered and replaced. With 132k on it now, I figured something had to go by now.

Put it up on the lift.. get into the Explorer and put it in driver to see what it could be. Everything is tight.. no howling or thuds from bad wheel bearings.. Hmmm.. it's a mystery till he got to the PTU. PTU is grinding badly.. thought is the bad shaking is coming from the PTU that has the original fluid in it. Thank god I gambled and renewed my ESP as it will cover the PTU.

Second issue is a sound coming when I turn the steering wheel from 12 to either 10 or 2 o'clock. I had originally replaced the passenger strut mount thinking that was it as it's a "dung" type sound when you turn side to side. I thought it went away and then it came back.. well I figured, must be the driver's side now. Pop the hood, had him look all over on top and under the engine bay... come to find out, it is the EPAS causing the sound. Something with the replacement EPAS that the dealership put in almost 2 years ago is making this sound. Thank god I gambled and renewed my ESP as it will cover the EPAS.

Third issue that we didn't even know about was I have what looks like an oil leak coming from the firewall side of the engine at approximately the same level or a hair higher then the water pump. Water pump is still good and no coolant leak but because of the oil leak, they are going to have to tear down part of the motor. Because of the tear down, the front cover and water pump will be pulled so although the pump will not be covered, the labor will be from the tear down therefore I will pay the $40 for the pump out of my pocket and have the dealer replace it under Ford's labor dime. Thank god I gambled and renewed my ESP lol.

As I was ready to get rid of the Ex once we hit the expiration period of the ESP (156,000 miles), I think we will end up keeping it since all 3 major components that I was worried about are going to be replaced by Ford. My wife still loves the vehicle and as much as I wanted a new vehicle, it is foolish to go into a car payment when all the major components are being replaced that are major money.

I'm going to have them do the spark plugs as well since they are still original.

Couple of questions for the experts on here..

1) IS the PTU with the drain plug able to be put on an Explorer that has a non drain plug PTU? I would think so but not 100% sure. IF so, I'm going to fight for the updated one with the plug so I can change the fluid out easier going forward.

2) I know there is an updated water pump with a dual chain system or something like that (I recall seeing the pic from a member here comparing the old and new). Is this able to be put onto the 2011 and if so, what else do I need (updated chain etc??)

With everything said and done, my ESP is going to end up covering roughly $5,000 worth of parts and labor.

 

[allmyEXes]

You are a very smart man to avoid new car payments !

 

[thefranchise713]

Holy crap. Score one for the ESP!

How long can you renew the ESP for? I'm only at 50k, but I might keep this thing a longer than the 100k originally planned (my own ESP expiration date).

 

[Zodiac]

+1 for renewing ESP.

How is the renewal rate calculated? I have 8 year / 100k miles but I am interested in keeping it longer. Do they just mail you something close to expiration?

 

[blwnsmoke]

I had a 6yr/125k, the last day of my 6yr I called Joel and renewed through him. I bought a 3yr/36k ESP which was the longest I could buy because I was over 100k at the time.

Because of mileage, I could only get Basecare for the 3/36, I could have gone Extracare but only 2/24k. I wanted PTU, water pump and EPAS which Basecare covers so I was ok with the lower coverage for the longer term.

I wasnt sure if it would work in my favor but figured that 1 would go on me (crossing my fingers).. never thought Id get all 3 lol.

My buddy/mechanic and I are going to Ford tomorrow with it to see his buddy who works there and come up with a game plan on everything. Ford still needs to approve but it is clear on the issues.. oil leak is easily seen, ptu is easily verified and epas noise makes the sound 100% of the time so wont get any pushback.

 

[blwnsmoke]

Holy crap. Score one for the ESP!

How long can you renew the ESP for? I'm only at 50k, but I might keep this thing a longer than the 100k originally planned (my own ESP expiration date).

If you renew under 100k, you csn premium care.. and I believe you can go 4/48k. You then drop down to 3/36 and 2/24 as your mileage goes over 100k. So you would want to renew at 99,9xx or the last day of your ESP coverage because when you renew, it starts from that day essentially and cancels the original.

And Id go eith the lowest plan that covers what you want covered. I dont mind small maintenance bills but wanted the big money items covered.

 

[Zodiac]

If you renew under 100k, you csn premium care.. and I believe you can go 4/48k. You then drop down to 3/36 and 2/24 as your mileage goes over 100k. So you would want to renew at 99,9xx or the last day of your ESP coverage because when you renew, it starts from that day essentially and cancels the original.

And Id go eith the lowest plan that covers what you want covered. I dont mind small maintenance bills but wanted the big money items covered.

Is the price similar to when the vehicle is new or is the cost lower?

 

[blwnsmoke]

Is the price similar to when the vehicle is new or is the cost lower?

Dealer cost was about $1,600.

 

[KayGee]

1) IS the PTU with the drain plug able to be put on an Explorer that has a non drain plug PTU? I would think so but not 100% sure. IF so, I'm going to fight for the updated one with the plug so I can change the fluid out easier going forward.

2) I know there is an updated water pump with a dual chain system or something like that (I recall seeing the pic from a member here comparing the old and new). Is this able to be put onto the 2011 and if so, what else do I need (updated chain etc??)

I thought the PTU with drain plug was the water cooled version - not sure if the non-cooled version has a drain plug option.

I don't see why you can't put the updated water pump in, but you'd have to update all the other components to go with it - Do they even sell the old style pump anymore or do you have to upgrade to the new style when replacing?

 

[RedXLTlove]

Score!

 

[Sixonemale]

This confirms all of my thoughts, this generation of Explorer is not cheap to take into higher mileage unlike past generations. To think if you did not have the ESP and your water pump had seized your engine, your total costs would have probably classified your Explorer as totaled under most threshold standards.

 

[KayGee]

This confirms all of my thoughts, this generation of Explorer is not cheap to take into higher mileage unlike past generations. To think if you did not have the ESP and your water pump had seized your engine, your total costs would have probably classified your Explorer as totaled under most threshold standards.

The only thing stories like the OPs confirm is that the odds on an esp for a 5g explorer favor the player, not the house. One just needs to decide if they prefer to prepay their expenses (esp/warranty/insurance) or pay as things occur (self insure/emergency fund/rainy day fund).

One can't realistically expect to compare one generation of vehicle to the next as far as repair costs. Technological advances drive higher costs. Barring the water pump issue, I don't think the repair costs for a high mileage 5G explorer differ dramatically from comparable vehicles (on average - there are always going to be specific things that can vary). Where they will differ greatly is for people that have to pay someone to perform repairs/maintenance vs those that do it themselves.

Normal maintenance/repairs, like brake jobs/tires/suspension/AC/etc... are pretty similar to other current vehicles. EPAS is even a pretty similar expense compared to other vehicles with EPAS - gone are the days of cheap PS pump/rack repairs.

What I would find interesting is how much was spent on the original esp and the re-up esp vs the cost of repairs that were covered (that would have otherwise been an out of pocket expense without the esp). It sounds like more was paid out than was spent on the esp.

 

[blwnsmoke]

^^ I have my full oasis so will update about what was ESP and what wasnt. I can say my original 6/125k was $1,7xx. This one was about $1,700 as well but Joel paid half of it for me as a phenominal gesture due to how many have come to him over the 10 years.. so it cost me $819 out of my pocket. So in total, $2,5xx for a total of 9yr/156k coverage.

The last math I remember doing on the original ESP including rental car costs put me in the $1,300 range and no repairs yet on the 2nd ESP. So I was about $400 in Fords favor on the original and far ahead in my favor on this one. To be fair, a lot of costs in the $1,300 were rental because of all the TSBs performed on the 2011 over the first 2-3 years.

Plus with rental coverage at $60 a day that Ford will pay on top of everything... I am a happy man right now lol.

 

[Sixonemale]

The only thing stories like the OPs confirm is that the odds on an esp for a 5g explorer favor the player, not the house. One just needs to decide if they prefer to prepay their expenses (esp/warranty/insurance) or pay as things occur (self insure/emergency fund/rainy day fund).

One can't realistically expect to compare one generation of vehicle to the next as far as repair costs. Technological advances drive higher costs. Barring the water pump issue, I don't think the repair costs for a high mileage 5G explorer differ dramatically from comparable vehicles (on average - there are always going to be specific things that can vary). Where they will differ greatly is for people that have to pay someone to perform repairs/maintenance vs those that do it themselves.

Normal maintenance/repairs, like brake jobs/tires/suspension/AC/etc... are pretty similar to other current vehicles. EPAS is even a pretty similar expense compared to other vehicles with EPAS - gone are the days of cheap PS pump/rack repairs.

What I would find interesting is how much was spent on the original esp and the re-up esp vs the cost of repairs that were covered (that would have otherwise been an out of pocket expense without the esp). It sounds like more was paid out than was spent on the esp.

I agree the odds for an ESP favor the player, not the house, for the fifth generation Explorer. In most cases when buying reliable and well built vehicle an ESP is a way for the dealer to extract money from the customer/purchaser because in most cases they favor the house, sometimes dramatically.

I owned both a first and third generation Explorer, neither had the issues and/or cost associated with this one. Not to say that both previous generations of Explorers that I owned were perfect, they were not. More importantly I drove both of those vehicles with confidence and did not worry about whether coolant was leaking into my oil without warning or thinking that the PTU or power steering could go out in a moments notice. The following are what I believe are the major pain points with this generation of Explorer:

· Exhaust problem
· Power steering issues
· Water pump issues
· Hood paint bubble issue
· Front suspension issues
· PTU problems
· Overall build quality

Other than those issues above it's a great car, not a truck, to drive.

Blownsmoke you did very well with your gamble, probably some of which was influenced by posters in this forum. Congratulations.

 

[KayGee]

To me Blwnsmokes is a bit of a special case with some deals along the way and it still doesn't look like it paid off until ~8yrs/132K miles. I don't know if I'm going to try and keep mine that long or get rid of them before 100K.

I agree the odds for an ESP favor the player, not the house, for the fifth generation Explorer. In most cases when buying reliable and well built vehicle an ESP is a way for the dealer to extract money from the customer/purchaser because in most cases they favor the house, sometimes dramatically.

I owned both a first and third generation Explorer, neither had the issues and/or cost associated with this one. More importantly I drove both of those vehicles with confidence and did not worry about whether coolant was leaking into my oil or thinking that the PTU or power steering could go out in a moments notice. The following are what I believe are the major pain points with this generation of Explorer:

· Exhaust problem
· Power steering issues
· Water pump issues
· Hood paint bubble issue
· Front suspension issues
· PTU problems
· Overall build quality

Other than those issues above it's a great car, not a truck, to drive.

Blownsmoke you did very well with your gamble, probably some of which was influenced by posters in this forum. Congratulations.

GM had a few engines (3400) that had issues with intake gaskets that allowed coolant/oil to mix and it could kill the engine if enough coolant got into the oil. It wasn't as big of a repair as the water pump on the 5g explorer, but it still required taking the entire top half of the engine off and was quite time consuming for what amounted to about $50 or so in parts - and costly if you had to pay someone to do it for you. Point being - it's possible for any car to have an issue that doesn't become known until years later and sometimes it can bite you.

-Exhaust problem (not sure if you're referring to the CO issue or something else, but premiumcare brochure says it covers emission components, but not exhaust components, nor catalytic converters - not sure how that would be handled).
-Power steering issue is the same as any other vehicle with EPAS, so this is not just an explorer issue. If an EPAS needs to be replaced in any vehicle, it is going to be costly.
-Water pump - given, but I don't think anyone is clear on what the failure % really is, so maybe it's a bit blown out of proportion because if it fails it causes a substantial amount of cascading damage and people complain when it happens?
-Hood paint bubble issue (ESP brochure says paint/body parts aren't covered...)
-Front suspension (control arm/bushing issue?) - not something I'd worry about and purchase ESP over. I do a lot of work myself, so the parts cost for most front suspension parts is similar to most other vehicles I have maintained or currently maintain with higher miles.
-PTU problems - like the water pump, I'm not sure what the failure % really is, and this forum is an echo chamber for problems, so you're going to hear more about the bad than the good - blwnsmoke never maintained his PTU and it lasted 132K. How long might it have lasted if it had a couple of fluid changes?
-Overall build quality - you won't get any arguments from me on that, but there are as many problems that an ESP won't cover as it will. Go read the premiumcare brochure of items not covered.

Just trying to keep it in perspective. Any "insurance" product is always designed to favor the house in the aggregate, but that doesn't mean some people won't receive more benefits than others or more than they paid in. If one plans to keep their 5g explorer into high mileage, an ESP is probably worth the cost for some/many. However, there are going to be other issues that may occur along the way that the ESP won't cover, so be prepared to pay for repairs/maintenance not covered by ESP and deductibles for the ESP. In the grand scheme of things, it may be better to just not keep a 5g explorer much beyond 100k miles - it may be better to sell or trade it and get into another or something different, or it may be better to look at a leasing scheme to see if it makes more sense than purchase+esp+maintenance of older/higher mileage vehicle.

 

[blwnsmoke]

So, got the Explorer finally into the dealership today. Explained the 3 issues... although they treat me right, they were a little hesitant to believe all 3 major failures at the same time lol.

Just got the phone call.. Getting a new PTU, Getting a new EPAS and the valve cover and seal are bad which is the cause of the oil leak. Have to take the valve cover off to put the new seal on and new cover so they are going to charge me the cost of the water pump and put that on as well. So $100 deductible and about $60 for the pump.

On top of the excitement of getting this all covered... I work with the Branch Manager for Enterprise directly whenever I need rentals and made a request from him on a particular rental.. he came through for me once again!!! So I get to drive this courtesy of my ESP.

 

[Halford1]

ahhh didnt know about renew ESP!!! Looks like I will renew ESP soon. I am at 103,000 miles at the moment. Any advice? cost? who do I talk to about renewing ESP?

I just paid $100 to replace water pump and several gaskets to stop the oil leak last week. It runs smoother now than it did before the repairs.

 

[Stephen Cannon]

Good Score on the Lincoln Navigator right? Finny story on that one. I wasn't as lucky to drive but a few months ago I had to take Uber to pick up another vehicle when maintenance was complete. I must have scored the Daily Double. When I select the APP comes up...."Would you like to upgrade to Uber XL at NO EXTRA CHARGE?"...…….Why YES! I believe I would like a Lincoln Navigator for the same price as a Honda Civic!!! I didn't get to drive but still nice ride.

 

[peterk9]

ahhh didnt know about renew ESP!!! Looks like I will renew ESP soon. I am at 103,000 miles at the moment. Any advice? cost? who do I talk to about renewing ESP?

Check out the 'Sticky' section at the beginning of this sub forum.

Peter

 

[blwnsmoke]

Good Score on the Lincoln Navigator right? Finny story on that one. I wasn't as lucky to drive but a few months ago I had to take Uber to pick up another vehicle when maintenance was complete. I must have scored the Daily Double. When I select the APP comes up...."Would you like to upgrade to Uber XL at NO EXTRA CHARGE?"...…….Why YES! I believe I would like a Lincoln Navigator for the same price as a Honda Civic!!! I didn't get to drive but still nice ride.

Haha.. the Navigator is one impressive ride. We've gone through 2 full tanks so far since Thursday.. Took it for a long weekend trip to visit family out of state (set the appt appropriately so we would have it for this trip lol).

The Revel Audio is the best audio I've listened to in a stock vehicle so far. Lot of nice little subtle amenities to it that if the Aviator gets, it will definitely convince me to get one over a new Explorer.

Dealer called, work started today, will be done on Thursday at some point.