Starter Gear Not Retracting Back after Starting Engine (2nd Time)

[DSteele41]

@410Fortune @DILLARD000
@RangerX
@donalds

Below this new Post I will post my Issues that I posted in another thread in Regards to Torque Converter.


Ok so this happened again... I replaced Starter after checking FlexPlate and probing TC for any foreign Objects.

Got New Starter in Bolted up "Tight" and Connections Correct in Regards to Hot / Negative / and Relay
(They were Correct First Time as well ; not saying that was the issue)

So the Starter Gear is not Retracting.

I have not pulled the New Starter Yet ...waiting on a buddy to Troubleshoot before we
I'm 99% sure the New Starter will look like the old one in Pics. Same Grinding Noise and boggig out of Engine (Flexplate is eating Starter Gear)

Pics of Flexplate and foreign object pulled after the first time it happend


***Update just now..... Tested a Vehicle Light Bulb Running a wire to Starter Hot Connectin and negative to Ground

With Key in ON Position and Off ...

"The Starter Always has Power all the Time" (Bulb stays Lit Up)

What does that mean ?



//------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------//

Looks like another Road Bump.....

First I Replaced every accessory to engine ....Except the Starter....

So my buddy and I got the Truck all together and was letting it run and getting transmission filled etc
and then we heard some noise ....we knew it had someting to do with Starter ....it was late so we called it a night.

Tonight I pulled the Starter out ....And ....See Pics ....
My limited knowledge tells me the starter didnt release off Flexplate after starting ....???

I stopped for the night but tomorrow Ill put eyes on Flexplate

Also Ive got New Starter in hand.

How likely is it that the Flexplate is toast
And what other damage could this have done ?

Looks like Im pulling Transmission after all to replace Flexplate?

Well if it were easy Id give up ...seriously and LOL at this point


OK I turned I turned Drive /Crank Shaft going around 2 times on Flexplate.....I marked a spot with a razor knife to know I went around 2x

You can see the mark in the last pic.

the only Big thing I pulled out is in pic 1 (its not metal because it doesn't attract to magnet, I just have sitting on the magnet so you can see
"it" better in pic)

I took about 20 photos....put eyes on Flex Plate with Flashlight in addition to Photos.
All the other photos look the same


(Looks like the Flexplate is Good) ? and I can go ahead and button it back up with "New" Starter ?

 

[RangerX]

My only experience with this was with a 90 F250 with the 6 cyl and manual trans. New starter would not disengage, and my flywheel got way more chewed up than that. Turns out the part store gave me a starter for an auto trans.
After I got the correct starter installed, everything was fine, even with the chewed up flywheel. FWIW.

 

[DSteele41]

Thanks for reply

I actually Jumped the gun
Pics of new starter after pulling it out
...The New Starter is ok and did disengage ....but the grinding noise still exist ....after doing the testing on power from Starter relay in relation to engine being started or not ...so Im Happy the new one is ok but still need to figure out noise

 

[410Fortune]

grind3ing noise still there? What the heck!

you said:

So my buddy and I got the Truck all together and was letting it run and getting transmission filled etc
and then we heard some noise ....we knew it had someting to do with Starter ....it was late so we called it a night.

Tonight I pulled the Starter out ....And ....See Pics ....
My limited knowledge tells me the starter didnt release off Flexplate after starting ....???

Was it running fine all nice and smooth and then all of a sudden you heard the noise? or was the noise present the whole time?

 

[DSteele41]

grind3ing noise still there? What the heck!

you said:


Was it running fine all nice and smooth and then all of a sudden you heard the noise? or was the noise present the whole time?

@410Fortune

"grind3ing noise still there? What the heck!"

Yes the Starter is ok as far as the new one from pic of new one above ... it is retracting. The Old one Evidently did not

But the noise sounds the somewhat similar.... We think it's exhaust "Maybe"

so I bought New Y Pipe /Downpipe and Second set (2) Converter section as well and because the Flange on both the
New Set of Converters and the Intermediate (Original) Pipe are Welded they didn't mate up
(See Pic) for better explanation

so it's Loud for now until I can get it to the Exhaust Shop to get Intermediate pipe Welded and new Flowmaster Muffler on.

Which is another Problem for now... Because I guess the "Back Pressure" Debate is real because it Bogs out because Exhaust is not compete ?

so I'm hoping to be able to drive it about 3-4 miles to the Exhaust shop near me.

Back to Noise (Sorry for jumping around)

It seems to be coming from the Same Area and Again not sure if it's exhaust or not


Also with All of this Back Tracking I've Taking the Driver Side Exhaust Manifold and Gasket off Literally 7-8 times so I may have to Replace that
Metal Gasket.... Not Really sure ......

Yet another thing the Exhaust Vibration Absorbtion Bracket on Transmission is missing ..... But Found one at LKQ on an Explorer here where I Live
so I Plan on going to pull it (See Pic from one I need to pull off Explorer from Salvage Yard) so maybe that's a cause as well



Was it running fine all nice and smooth and then all of a sudden you heard the noise? or was the noise present the whole time?

In Regards to this ... Remember the Old Transmission was Toast... but when we had it installed and old Exhaust all the way Connected

I remember the Engine running rough first few times ( had to Siphon 4 month old Gas out) and put in half of a tank of new gas and fuel stablizer and it seem to Run Smooth after I guess new gas got to Engine and Engine Broke in a bit

If I remember correct this noise issue outside of Old Starter Hanging ( which brings to mind the old starter didn't hang ) evidently when Old Transmission was hooked up ). The noise wasn't there again as far as I remember.

 

[410Fortune]

I drove my 96 explorer about 40 miles to the exhaust shop when I first built it, but it had all 4 02 sensors in place. Your truck will need at least the 2 upstream 02 sensors in place to run well enough to drive a few miles.
Loud is okay
Backpressure is not needed to get it to run.
But the engine computer is counting on the oxygen sensors in order to properly calculate fuel delivery = run

 

[DSteele41]

I drove my 96 explorer about 40 miles to the exhaust shop when I first built it, but it had all 4 02 sensors in place. Your truck will need at least the 2 upstream 02 sensors in place to run well enough to drive a few miles.
Loud is okay
Backpressure is not needed to get it to run.
But the engine computer is counting on the oxygen sensors in order to properly calculate fuel delivery = run

@410Fortune Copy that ; All 4 Sensors ?

I counted 3; 1 on each of the "Y"/ "Downpipes" and 1 on the second set of Converters.

also going ahead and pulling Trans and ordered new Flexplate just in case

 

[410Fortune]

yes 5.0 trucks have 4ea 02 sensors
2 upstream of the cat converters and 2 downstream


the 2 upstream sensors are critical to metering air
the 2 downstream sensors are catalyst monitors and while not critical they will set some codes if they do not exist

when you pull the trans it is very likely you will see the source of your noise
Something must have gone haywire with the trans install/bad starter/dropped nuts....something fishy for sure

 

[DSteele41]

yes 5.0 trucks have 4ea 02 sensors
2 upstream of the cat converters and 2 downstream


the 2 upstream sensors are critical to metering air
the 2 downstream sensors are catalyst monitors and while not critical they will set some codes if they do not exist

when you pull the trans it is very likely you will see the source of your noise
Something must have gone haywire with the trans install/bad starter/dropped nuts....something fishy for sure

I Agree Safe Bet to go ahead and Pull Trans

(See attached Pic)
but when you say 4 Sensors; I only have 3 Sensors but do have 4 Converters

The Second Set of Converters has 1 Sensor in Between the 2 Converters

Just Clarifying I'm not missing 1

 

[410Fortune]

Sorry yes the v6 has 3 02 sensors

I keep thinking v8 exhaust........

Your truck has 2 upstream sensors and one catalyst monitor

 

[DSteele41]

Sorry yes the v6 has 3 02 sensors

I keep thinking v8 exhaust........

Your truck has 2 upstream sensors and one catalyst monitor

@410Fortune
Good Deal.... Again Just Wanted to Make sure I wasn't missing a vital Sensor

May have already said this: but going ahead and pulling Transmission and Replacing Flexplate and double checking everything on back end of engine block, TC, and Bell Housing

I'll send update.

also do you know if this "Y" Pipe and Exhaust Manifold setup will Fit 2003 Sport Trac 4WD ?

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Thanks Again

 

[DSteele41]

@410Fortune

A really Really Rookie Question... but How Many Bell Housing Bolts should Bolt up on the 5R55E

In Process of Re-Pulling Tranny and Only Pulled 7 ( I know.... I know.... )

I'm guessing 8

 

[410Fortune]

8
but 7 will hold it
heck even 6 will work

not a huge deal

 

[DSteele41]

8
but 7 will hold it
heck even 6 will work

not a huge deal

@410Fortune ; There were 8 Bell Housing Bolts, I missed 1 and realized it when I went to pry Tranny from Block

Got Transmission Pulled from Engine Block and found that 5th Nut to TC.... (Only need 4 lol)

Glad we pulled it back off ...My mind was playing tricks on me
Or more importantly I learned to put Bolts in simple platic zip locks and label to keep track of

Planning to Replace Flexplate (Already Ordered) and Pull TC out and clean up Bell Housing from Shavings of the First Starter Gear being shreaded. Again... The New Starter was Retracting Back after Start and Looks fine.

Any Other Suggestions on How to Proceed and Troubleshoot Grinding Noise ?

Still Not Sure that Nut was the cause of the "Grinding" Sound... it was sitting below TC when I pulled Tranny off Block

 

[410Fortune]

where was the nut? In the flexplate torque converter area???

 

[DSteele41]

where was the nut? In the flexplate torque converter area???

@410Fortune
(See Pics of Flexplate after getting Transmission Unbolted from Block)
and Pic of TC has a very slight nic in it at piece that goes in Engine block (Last Picture)


It was sitting right at bottom of TC in the Bell Housing.... I don't Believe it ever made contact with the Flex plate ... I say that because Teeth still look the same after the Flexplate ate gear on old starter the wouldn't retract after starting... the Teeth or Flexplate doesn't look damaged.... but again I ordered a new Flexplate since they're relatively Inexpensive.
it was kind of wedged between Bell Housing and TC but not Really because it was moving freely... if that makes sense

 

[DSteele41]

@410Fortune

Buddy just arrived and we held the New Starter up to Flex Plate and the Gear on the Starter(when Starter is Retracted) still touches the flexplate if that makes sense....So

Is there supposed to be a "Spacer" of some sort behind the Flexplate so that when the Starter Retracts after starting it's not touching Flex Plate ?

 

[donalds]

Looks like the flex plate is on backwards
Am I wrong I most likely am
That spacer is called a block plate and yes it needs to be there

 

[DSteele41]

Looks like the flex plate is on backwards
Am I wrong I most likely am
That spacer is called a block plate and yes it needs to be there

@donalds

The Flexplate was facing the Correct way and the Spacer/Block Plate was behind Flexplate.

Do you happen to know the Width of the Spacer to make sure it is the correct one ( We took over Job from another guy who we don't trust did everything right)

 

[donalds]