Prevention! how far is too far?

[RigandGrif]

Hey All,

I've got a '91 Eddie Bauer X with 230K miles.

Sadly I just wrote the most exquisite, whitty, concise and delightful post, but alas, my caveman tech skills somehow vanished it, so I'm just going to get the point this time around. I've got a little ticking that just started on the passenger side valvetrain. From the threads I've dug into here, you all make it sound like pushrods and rocker arms. So, I want to replace them. How far do I go while I'm in there? Water pump, head gaskets, cam shaft... the list of "it kind of makes sense while you're in there" could go on and on. I am also thinking about taking it apart, and putting my eyes on the cylinder walls to see how they look before ordering any parts. It runs strong, but who knows. Seems like I should make sure it doesn't need a short block rebuild before throwing a bunch of parts and time at it. I'll need to learn how to make sure the cylinders are in spec.

Also, September is a month of driving dirt roads and no time for projects. Am I going to do any more damage. It doesn't seem like I'll hurt anything but the pushrods and rocker arms, but I dunno. I don't get paid to fix cars, so certainly there are things that I would overlook. The most likely thing seems to be the camshaft. Anyway, should I avoid driving it until I can address the issue in October or maybe another 1000 miles later? My plan was to take a listen with the hood up every now and again, and it the little ticking noise turns into quite the ruckus, then I have my answer. What do you all advise.

Thanks ahead of time!

 

[RangerX]

If you’ve been doing regular basic maintenance like oil changes, I’d say you could go another 100,000 without worrying to much. So go ahead and drive it for a month. Mine went to 370,000 before other issues killed it, and the engine had never been opened up in that time.

 

[410Fortune]

I’ve been inside 50 higher
Mile 4.0 pushrod engines like yours

I would do head gaskets and bolts new water pump new thermostat plugs and wires along with all new intake gaskets and injector o rings.

You will likely find you need 2-4 rocker arms and maybe a couple of pushrods
Really simple work
You can inspect your heads while they are off or even install new reman heads.. they are about $650-800 a pair with return labels for your old ones. But typically heads are only needed if you were experiencing loss of coolant or rough running.

The tips of the rocker arms are
Likely worn causing your tick
It’s easy to spot the pitting

Usually cylinders 3 and 6 (the rear most cylinders have issue getting oiled)

A compression test before you pull it apart can help identify troubled cylinders or potential valve seal issues

 

[RigandGrif]

I’ve been inside 50 higher
Mile 4.0 pushrod engines like yours

I would do head gaskets and bolts new water pump new thermostat plugs and wires along with all new intake gaskets and injector o rings.

You will likely find you need 2-4 rocker arms and maybe a couple of pushrods
Really simple work
You can inspect your heads while they are off or even install new reman heads.. they are about $650-800 a pair with return labels for your old ones. But typically heads are only needed if you were experiencing loss of coolant or rough running.

The tips of the rocker arms are
Likely worn causing your tick
It’s easy to spot the pitting

Usually cylinders 3 and 6 (the rear most cylinders have issue getting oiled)

A compression test before you pull it apart can help identify troubled cylinders or potential valve seal issues

Brilliant! Thanks for the solid info. Yeah, it still feels plenty strong, bu then again, I drive like your grandmother on her way to church when she's running an hour early, so who know how much power the thing actually has.

I've actually been wanting to check the compression even before the ticking, because I'm considering putting some money into suspension and other things like that, and figured it might be a good idea to make sure the engine isn't going to die in the first 10K miles after a bunch of effort and money.

I'll try to see if I can figure out a compression test.

Thanks!

 

[Josh P]

I just wrote the most exquisite, whitty, concise and delightful post

Keep going.... I'm the voice of no reason around here. If a little ticking noise has you inspecting the main bearings, might as well swap a 5.0 in. You sure the noise isn't from a cracked exhaust manifold?

 

[RigandGrif]

Keep going.... I'm the voice of no reason around here. If a little ticking noise has you inspecting the main bearings, might as well swap a 5.0 in. You sure the noise isn't from a cracked exhaust manifold?

If there's one thing I'm sure of, it's that I'm not sure of anything... or maybe I'm not sure about that, come to think of it.

 

[Josh P]

Welcome to the forum. The 4.0 is pretty stout, many will go beyond 400k miles with routine abuse. To answer the original question of how far is too far, never too far. If you're already in there, make it new. If the heads come off, new should go back on.

 

[RigandGrif]

I’ve been inside 50 higher
Mile 4.0 pushrod engines like yours

I would do head gaskets and bolts new water pump new thermostat plugs and wires along with all new intake gaskets and injector o rings.

You will likely find you need 2-4 rocker arms and maybe a couple of pushrods
Really simple work
You can inspect your heads while they are off or even install new reman heads.. they are about $650-800 a pair with return labels for your old ones. But typically heads are only needed if you were experiencing loss of coolant or rough running.

The tips of the rocker arms are
Likely worn causing your tick
It’s easy to spot the pitting

Usually cylinders 3 and 6 (the rear most cylinders have issue getting oiled)

A compression test before you pull it apart can help identify troubled cylinders or potential valve seal issues

The time has come. After a long climb in 4wd to go to our local ski resort, I took a look at the fluids right before starting the trip back down. Turns out the coolant reservoir was empty, and there have been a couple of misses when first fired up, so I'm guessing head gaskets. It does leak oil, but I haven't seen any coolant leaks, so it must be blowing out the back.

Probably headed to the parts store today and here's my list:
-head gaskets and bolts
-water pump
-intake gaskets
-injector o rings
-push rods (maybe not a full set)
-rocker arms (maybe not a full set)
-New spark plugs (these are also pretty new, but with the head leaking, won't a couple of them be cooked?)

Also, I'll get the heads looked at by a machine shop to ensure the deck surface is straight.

I recently replaced the thermostat and temperature sender, so I think I'm good there.

Anything I'm missing?

 

[410Fortune]

With 230k you will likely need to have the heads rebuilt or buy new
They are likely cracked and or the valve seals will be worn
New set of heads anywhere from $600-1000

Reading the spark plugs will likely tell you which cylinders are ingesting coolant
Consider a new set of injectors as well, after you decide which route to take once the heads are off and inspected

 

[Josh P]

Anything I'm missing?

A 302.

 

[RigandGrif]

With 230k you will likely need to have the heads rebuilt or buy new
They are likely cracked and or the valve seals will be worn
New set of heads anywhere from $600-1000

Reading the spark plugs will likely tell you which cylinders are ingesting coolant
Consider a new set of injectors as well, after you decide which route to take once the heads are off and inspected

I'll see what the guy at the machine shop says about the heads. Hopefully just decking surface. I'll see what a new set of injectors runs, but if the spark plugs aren't reading lean, can I just assume those are fine. Depending on price, maybe it's worth it.

Thanks again!

 

[RigandGrif]

A 302.

Good point. Maybe change it to a five speed while I'm at it and probably better lift it and throw in a train horn, just to be safe.

 

[Josh P]

Good point. Maybe change it to a five speed while I'm at it and probably better lift it and throw in a train horn, just to be safe.

People ignore the horn, they'll ask themselves if you do too. Get a hand that pops up with a single digit salute. As you tear into the engine, post pictures, I'll be watching this build with interest.

 

[DintDobbs]

Jumping in to watch this thread too!

@ExploreGrif Not a 1st-gen guy myself, so I won't be providing much useful input. But I think you'll find that 410Fortune and Josh P have basically got you covered!

 

[RigandGrif]

Went down to the local parts place and ordered some things. Parts should be in next week and I am not going to start until then anyway. Next step is to make space in the shop, so I guess I'll have to find a shovel.

 

[RigandGrif]

getting started and learning how to upload photos on here. I'm better with a hammer than I am with a keyboard.

 

[RigandGrif]

First little hiccup, the bolt broke off when taking out the water pump. Luckily I was able to break it loose with some heat, penetrating oil, patience, pleading to a higher power, and a vice grip.

 

[410Fortune]

I’ve been using candle wax more and more it really works well… put on hot bolt it melts down into the threads… some of these tricks are basically magic

 

[Cheddar_Dan]

getting started and learning how to upload photos on here. I'm better with a hammer than I am with a keyboard.

View attachment 462230

BEST OF LUCK!!! Be gentle with that air tube! They like to crack!

 

[RigandGrif]

I’ve been using candle wax more and more it really works well… put on hot bolt it melts down into the threads… some of these tricks are basically magic

candle wax? I've never heard of such a thing. My hope is that I don't have to even think about broken off bolts any more, but that is likely wishful thinking.