1997 Mountaineer Aftermarket Stereo Questions

[dr.strangelove]

Alright, I'm replacing my stock head unit and have a couple questions before I order wire harnesses. I searched and searched, but couldn't find quite the answers I needed.

It's a 1997 Mountaineer. The stock HU was an AM/FM/Cassette unit with 6 disc CD changer in the center console and back seat controls and headphone jacks. The CD changer quit working several years ago and has long since been removed. Until a few days ago I had been running my MP3 player through a cassette adapter and that was doing me just fine. However, the cassette player has now decided that it doesn't like cassettes or cassette adapters anymore, so I purchased a cheap used head unit on eBay (Pioneer DEH-1100MP, 15w RMS per channel. 28 bucks). Since I didn't see the words "JBL" anywhere and don't have a sub in the back, I assumed I had a "basic" factory stereo with no amp and a very easy install ahead of me, but based on what I've read it now looks more like I've got a premium-yet-non-JBL factory stereo with an 80 watt amp tucked in the back quarter panel. First question: I wanted to see if anybody can tell me for sure if I've got a "premium" system with amp based on the features I mentioned. I haven't got the removal keys for the head unit yet and don't want to rip apart the entire back half of my car to find out if there's an amp there or not. **EDIT** I've confirmed that I do indeed have the non-JBL "premium" factory audio system.

Second question: **EDIT* Should I get an amp integration wiring harness or go through the trouble of bypassing the factory amp? Since the new head unit is only 15 watt per channel I think I may be able to get by with running it directly through the factory amp without terrible distortion, and as an added benefit I wouldn't have to spend 10 hours ripping apart and likely destroying the brittle plastic back panel to reveal the factory amp.

My head unit shipped yesterday and I want to get it installed ASAP in case I need to send it back within the 15 day return policy, so any help would be appreciated.

 

[youneek28]

The easiest way to find out is to look at the very back right panel, closest to the hatch. Does it have a storage bin type thing or is it flat and looks like it has a speaker grill? If it has the storage thing then you dont have the goods back there.

 

[dr.strangelove]

I've got a storage bin in the back - not the speaker box or panel. However, I pulled the HU out today and I've got the 8+16 pin wire harness, and my fuse panel has the 30 amp "premium audio" fuse in place. And from what I read here: http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=250256 I got the idea there might be a factory amp tucked back there. Just wanted to make sure. I hope there's not, it'll make the installation a lot easier! However, if there is a factory amp I've figured how I'm going to go about handling it. My new HU has got one set of pre-amp RCA line-outs, so I'll just use a Y splitter and then wire male RCA plugs into the snap-in harness. Thanks for the help - I'll post back if I run into any problems.

 

[Mbrooks420]

You don't have the high end stock system, but you still have the external speaker amp. The systems with a stock sub actually have 2 amps. 98 was the first year with the speaker amp in the HU. I'd bypass the factory amp, instead of powering, and using it. The sound quality of the amp, driven by a HU is pretty poor.

 

[dr.strangelove]

Exactly! That was what I was trying to say - the basic/premium/premium w/JBL terminology kind confuses things. But it sounds like there's definitely is a factory 80 watt amp there then. Thanks for the clarification - it's been driving me nuts.

I'm not real hung up on sound quality. Basically the entire purpose for this "upgrade" is to get sound from my MP3 player to my stock speakers as cheaply as possible since my stock unit is now incapable of anything but AM/FM radio. Would running the pre-amp output from the new head unit into the factory amp sound any worse than the stock head unit? I assume the stock unit just uses a standard line-level signal to the amp, right? So it should be the same, theoretically. Bear in mind that I've been using a cassette adapter with the stock head unit for the past couple years and not been bothered by the results. My only reason for wanting to go with the RCA pre-amp and stock external amp combo instead of a bypass is convenience - removing that back panel looks like a real ***** and I don't want to break the plastic. I can pick up an 8+16 pin wire harness with the bypass cable for 9 bucks, so I'll probably go ahead and do that in case I need to/decide to go for the bypass. Thanks for the help so far!

 

[corkey]

some of the wiring harnesses will turn on the amp, and let the system use the amp, but if it does not work well enough for you , like distorts the sound ,do what i did, get an amp bypass kit, and than remove the fuse,

 

[dr.strangelove]

Yeah, I read in another thread about having to connect the 12v+ for the stock amp and using a resistor to prevent popping on start up. Like I said, I think I'm just going to go ahead and pick up the kit that includes the bypass cable and then see how it goes. Worst case scenario, I bite the bullet and pull the back panel apart. Hell, I may just do it anyway, get it out of the way now instead of trying to postpone the inevitable. I read the PDF diagram, but any tips for removing that panel easily without breaking or cracking anything?

 

[Mbrooks420]

There are no inputs on the factory amp for RCA's. I originally powered the factory amp, but had to go ahead and yank the rear panel and bypass it since the sound quality and volume was teh suck. Pulling the rear cover is pretty easy, all you need is that big torx to remove the seat belt anchor. In fact you CAN pull it without removing the anchor but it's tricky.

 

[dr.strangelove]

No, I know the stock amp doesn't have RCA inputs. Here's my thought process, and correct me if I'm wrong: The 16 pin connector at the head unit consists of the wire bundle that carries line-level audio signal from the head unit to the stock amplifier. The stock amplifier then amplifies the line-level signal and outputs it through a second connector to the door speakers. I'm buying a snap-in wire harness for the 16 pin connector, so I was going to splice in male RCA connectors to the appropriate wires and plug them into the RCA line-level outputs on my head unit. This should, theoretically, send a line-level signal from the RCA pre-amp outputs on my head unit, through the appropriate wires, to the stock amplifier, and then the amp, of course, would output the signal to the speakers. All the bypass patch-cable does, as I understand it, is connect the wires from the head unit that would ordinarily go into the factory amp directly to the speaker wires that would ordinarily come out of the factory amp. With the patch cable in place, I would use the amplified speaker outputs from my head unit wiring harness and match them up to the 16 pin connector harness. The patch cable replaces the amp, so the signal goes directly from the 15 watt head unit outputs through the patch cable instead of the amp, and out through the speaker wires.

I know that's long-winded, but I just want to make sure I'm thinking straight. All told, the consensus seems to be that sound quality is superior bypassing the amp and driving the speakers directly from the new head unit (or buying a decent aftermarket amp, of course, which isn't something I'm going to spend money on). If the panel really isn't that terribly bad to get out then I may just do that from the get-go. I'll probably end up saving myself a big pain in the ass anyway.

 

[corkey]

yes, technically you can hook up the rca's instead of the speaker wires,and than use the amp, as the power from the rca's is lower and therefore it will not distort as easily, , but , it might no be as loud,
the adapter does as you explained, it just routes the sound , , my head unit was a 200 watt head unit, so i got more sound, ie louder, because of the higher powwered deck, and the amp bypass,
but before trying the bypass, seeing as your deck is only 15 watts, making the toal only 60 watts total , try the amp first than make up your mind wether or not you want to bypass the amp,, it might not be as loud with the head unti amp circuit,

 

[dr.strangelove]

Okay, awesome - thanks for the clarification/confirmation. Yeah, my head unit's RMS rating is only 15 per channel. Enough to power crappy stock speakers, but not a powerhouse by any means. Peak is 50 watts per channel, but of course peak ratings are utterly useless. The stock amp is only 20 watts per channel though, so bypassing the amp shouldn't have a huge impact on volume. My stock head unit usually never goes above 3 on the volume dial, so that's not a huge deal anyway. Like you said, I'll just give it a go and see which way sounds better. UPS says it should be here the 29th, so expect more posts here on Thursday if the installation goes sour

 

[corkey]

k, good luck, it should go well, the adapters make it easy,
i used them for both the connection and the amp bypass, that was given to me by gmanpaint,,
my deck has an internal eq so i saw a great difference with the bypass,

 

[dr.strangelove]

Thinking about it a bit more, I think I'm going to go for the gusto and attempt the bypass straight-away. 15 watts RMS at 1% THD from the new head unit can't sound anything but better than 20 watts RMS at 10% THD from the factory amp.

 

[dr.strangelove]

Well, my wiring finally arrived today and I proceeded with the installation, including the amp bypass. Popping out the back side panel was as easy as eating cake. I pried up the plastic plugs with a small screwdriver enough to pull them out with a pair of mini needle nose. I didn't even bother taking the seatbelt bolt out, I just pried the plastic away from the wall, felt around, unplugged the wires from the bottom, snapped on the bypass cable. Voila! That part of the install took about 5 minutes including cleanup time.

Then I proceeded with soldering up the factory harness adapters to the new head unit's wiring harness. Matched up the colors, soldered w/ heat shrink tubing, plugged it all in and everything works beautifully. The bypass was definitely a good idea - even with the stock speakers and this mediocre head unit it sounds better than it did before. Thanks for the help with my questions. Here are some before and after shots (quality is crappy - the sun was streaming in and it was hard to get any good pics):

 

[Mbrooks420]

Nice