1999 explorer 4wd problem

[rsxs1212]

i have a 1999 explorer with 33" tires and running on stock gearing.. anyway about a month ago i noticed that the auto 4wd stopped operating.. but i was like oh well i live in florida im not real worried about that anyways.. but then last weekend i am about to go do some offroading with some of my friends and i put it in 4wheel high just to get started and when i put the car in drive all it does is rev up.. i get nothing to the wheels at all.. then i go the 4wd low and the i hear the thump and it gears like its in 4wd low but the front wheels do not engage.. this causes a problem for me.. still does pretty good but i got stuck alot obviously.. i dont know what the problem is ive read about repositioning the motor or something like that but im not exactly sure about it.. to be honest i dont know if the transfer case fluid has ever been replaced so i plan on flushing that this weekend and putting in some new fluid. anyways i was just seeing if you had an idea of what is wrong with it because i have no idea.. the truck does have 208,000 miles on it but this is about the first time ive gone and wanted to intentionally use the 4wd offroading so its not like the transfer case has been beaten.. i have driven it a few times onroad with 4wd engaged because my son would flip the switch to 4wd high at a light and when id go around the corner id notice it and turn it off.. i know thats not good but would it result in killing the tc?? he didnt do it alot but a few times for sure..

Thanks in advance!
Sean

 

[gijoecam]

Driveline bind-up occurs when cornering on a high traction surface with a locked case. It's not good, but an occasional occurrance likely didn't destroy the t-case.

As for the neutral effect when engaging 4high and the lack of 4wd lockup, the two are coincidental and (before someone chimes in saying it's a shift motor problem) completely unrelated to the shift motor. If 4low engaged and disengaged the low range gear set, there's nothing wrong with the shift motor.

Read the bottom 1/3 of this post:
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225650

Ignore the first 2/3 of it... not really your issue.

 

[rsxs1212]

are you sure thats the right thread?? there is only 4 posts and i dont really see how any of them apply..

Im somewhat handy when it comes to cars i love working on them but ive never went into transmission or transfer case issue so this is new to me. if it isnt the shift motor (which didnt sound right to me anyway) what could be the problem.. Maybe if you have the right thread on hand i could take a look at that..
Thanks in advance.

 

[gijoecam]

are you sure thats the right thread?? there is only 4 posts and i dont really see how any of them apply..

Im somewhat handy when it comes to cars i love working on them but ive never went into transmission or transfer case issue so this is new to me. if it isnt the shift motor (which didnt sound right to me anyway) what could be the problem.. Maybe if you have the right thread on hand i could take a look at that..
Thanks in advance.

Eegads! Nope! Sure isn't? Not sure how I managed to snag the wrong thread link... my bad... sorry for the confusion...

Here's the one I was going for:

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210175

-Joe

 

[rsxs1212]

allright so what i got out of that post is that i should check the brown wire and see what im getting.. if nothing should i just run it to a 12v power source and a switch?? is that what engages the clutch?? to me it seems like it is a clutch issue.. today i got the front and rear diffs flushed as well as the TC and the transmission so we should be good to go there.. still doesnt make sense why when i put it in 4 high all it does is rev as if it was in neutral.. but if i could get full time 4wd in 4LO i would be happy because thats all i need i dont need 4 high.. but auto is necessary too as i drive this vehicle semi daily...

Anyway thanks for all the help so far hopefully you can help me figure this one out!! i have confidence its an electrical problem most likely.. is there a fuse i should check?? and also i doubt this would have anything to do with it but i put in new front wheel hubs that didnt have abs sensors so my abs dont work and the light is on but i dont think thts related.. and its not possible the hubs stripped out where the cvs go is it??? i dont think that could happen considering the circumstances and design but i really dont know.. alot of weird things have happened with this truck

 

[gijoecam]

Anything is possible... but unlikely... The halfshaft on that side would be freewheeling, and putting it in 4low wouldn't make a difference. If it were a halfshaft or hub issue, it would still be a halfshaf/hub issue when it was in 4low.

How in the world did you get hubs with no ABS sensors??

 

[rsxs1212]

i have no idea.. i ordered them online and they just werent on there.. and my old ones were bad anyway so i didnt really care.. i guess ill test the brown wire and let you know how that goes

 

[rsxs1212]

i coudlnt get around to doing the wire today but say its not getting voltage?? which i have a nagging feeling it isnt.. what can i check or change to give it voltage?? if threre is a fuse the light probably wouldnt come on on the dash would it? but i dont know

thanks..

 

[rsxs1212]

okay tested the wire.. no voltage.. next step?? do a switch from 12v source?? i guess ill work on getting that rigged up

 

[joecrna]

ABS sensors? This is a 99? The GEM that controls 4WD also gets input from the ABS module among several other sorces. If it gets faulty info from the ABS that doesn't match-up with that other info it may go into a limp home mode and not allow 4WD regardless of the dash switch position. Sending 12v to the TCCC directly will however provide manual control of 4WD even in this situation.

 

[gijoecam]

okay tested the wire.. no voltage.. next step?? do a switch from 12v source?? i guess ill work on getting that rigged up

Lets check the simple stuff first:

Fuse junction box, #28(7.5A mini), #10(7.5A mini), #20(7.5A mini), double-check that the accessory delay relay is functioning (start the vehicle, turn it off, then without opening the door, verify that the windows still go up and down).

The fact that it lights up the dash properly tells me that the GEM is calling for 4wd. Assuming the fuses and the accessory delay relay are working properly, I'd have my money pegged on the TOD relay (Torque On Demand). It's easy to get to, simple to change out, but tough for many dealers to locate in the system (why? I dunno).

Check the fuses and relay and let me know what you find.

Bypassing the relay using a switch would work, but it's not really a 'fix' in my book... just a work-around, that's all.

-Joe

 

[rsxs1212]

all fuses checked and good.. and as for the relay.. i dont know how you check it other than to buy a new one and replace it and that seems somewhat unecessary to me.. should i try the "walk around" and see if it works.. i realize thats not the best way but i will be the last owner of this vehicle and from here on out it will just be more and more personalized to my liking and use of it.. im soon getting a new truck and this will soley be an offroading truck so im not real concerned with bypassing things liek that, actually encouraging it to some extent.. if i do bypass it though can other things get messed up?? i just dont want to dump money into it.. if i wanted to i would put in a manual shift trans case but at this point im not doing that..

anyway thanks for the help and let me knwo what you think.. ive got to get some pictures up here..

 

[gijoecam]

Yup!

Here's what I would do... First, put the front end on jack stands and verify that, with the truck in park, you should be able to turn the front driveshaft by hand. (You'll see why in a minute...)

Pop the stereo out, remove the trim bezel from around the HVAC/stereo, remove the duct for the HVAC, and you'll see the TOD relay on the right side of the opening, above the glove box, just behind the dash panel, mounted to the brace.



I would unplug the connector on the relay, and attach a jumper wire with an alligator clip to the pin on the connector where the brown wire attaches to it. Then, you'll need a power source. If you don't have one laying around, I would recommend running to the parts store and picking up a cheap 12V cigarette lighter plug with a cord attached to it. They're about $5. Plug that into the auxiliary power point to provide power directly to the brown wire. If the t-case clutch coil is working properly, the front driveshaft will lock, and you will not be able to turn it by hand anymore. This simply verifies that the t-case is working properly.

Now, at this point, unfortunately I can't give you a conclusive answer as to whether it's a TOD relay issue, or a GEM issue. Without being able to monitor the GEM TOD duty cycle PID (output), I can't tell you for sure if the GEM is working properly or not. I would personally start with the TOD relay, probably getting a used one from a salvage yard or find someone on the board parting one out. The possibility remains that the TOD relay is fine, but the GEM output controlling it is bad... I just can't say without a proper diagnostic. Unfortunately, and educated guess is the best I can do for you at this point...

Give it a whirl and let us know what you find. Good luck!!

 

[rsxs1212]

well it is engaging properly when i run 12v to it.. so at this point i just spliced it with a switch and its working great.. ill have it off for a majority of the time so no harm should be done.. but i will keep an eye out for tod in the meantime and redo that when i find it and return to stock setup.. but the clutch is engaging with 12v so im happy for now..

thanks for all the help these forums are great... i dont know where i would be without forums like this.. haha

 

[steelo1]

An oldie that my search found, as I'm having similar issues.

 

[rsxs1212]

An oldie that my search found, as I'm having similar issues.

Explorer is long gone unfortunately.. But think it was the TOD.. I just kept the brown wire on a fused switch until I finally broke a timing chain and sold the thing.. Looking back I wish I still had it and dropped a 302 in it...

Learned alot over the past few years and fixing that thing up a little would have been much cheaper than my jeep wrangler I have now!!

she was gorgeous!!

 

[steelo1]

To me the X should have continued to move on in this pic, rear wheel was spinning, as front wheels should have grabbed (it was in both 4h & 4L) but didn't move till I locked the rear. :australia

 

[rsxs1212]

Open diffs will get you going nowhere alot of times.. Your front wheels werent moving at all? Either one?

 

[steelo1]

I was by myself so couldn't really see but there were no spin marks at all in the front. Going out tomorrow a.m. with some others for a play so will find out some more then. :scratch: :australia