2004 Explorer engine noise

[Tech By Trade]

The support for the rear guide is gone. See that hole, there should be a stud through there holding the top of the guide. Start shopping for an engine or for a OTC timing kit, a gasket set, and a set of guides and chains.... and a couple weeks of time.

 

[narsaw]

The support for the rear guide is gone. See that hole, there should be a stud through there holding the top of the guide. Start shopping for an engine or for a OTC timing kit, a gasket set, and a set of guides and chains.... and a couple weeks of time.

Thanks for the Tips,

Can a few other comment are you seeing the same thing?

If you listen the video/audio in my first post you can hear the "chatter" I am talking about. The audio is about a mine long. For the first 30 seconds I have the phone right on the intake manifold, the latter 30 seconds the phone was placed in the front part of the engine.

It does not sound like the some of the other timing chains issues I have listen to on Youtube, mine also sounds like valve chatter rather that metal on metal.

Let me know.

 

[Number4]

Are the chains loose or taught?

For me, I'd need to see a pic of your engine from the same angle as [MENTION=111113]2000StreetRod[/MENTION]s picture you used.

 

[Tech By Trade]

Pull your lower oil pan, its about 12 bolts. You will probably find all the pieces of plastic that are missing off those guides. The bolt that holds the top of that guide is probably sitting in there too.

 

[narsaw]

Chains felt very taught, no visible slack or slack to the touch.
[MENTION=111113]2000StreetRod[/MENTION] from reading your other threads (esp the timing ones), I would appreciate your feedback on this thread.

TbyT, I might consider this.

 

[EXPLORER04]

That piece of plastic there is part of the broken guide.

 

[narsaw]

It looked that way to me but when I replace that tensioner there it seem not be there anymore. I just thought it went back into place. Now I wonder.

Again newbie here

 

[Tech By Trade]

If you look in this picture you will see a threaded hole just to the left of the gear. Thats supposed to have a bolt in it with that holds the guide in place. the plastic is missing. This point holds the guide out, without it the tensioner is maxed trying to create tension on the chain. it also knocks your timing out by a few degrees.

It is the same location as the bolt circled in red in this picture, you can see how it holds the guide in place. The first pic the guide is sunk in under the gear.

 

[narsaw]

Good observation there. It's interesting that the bolt would come out (threaded out). I can understand why the plastic might break off (after all it is plastic) but the bolt that is a mystery.

Given this situation and knowing the part of the guide that is missing, what is the prognosis for this truck? Is it a matter if when not if the chain will jump the sprocket? Or is the broken guide in a place that is not as bad as it would be in another location.

Brass tax fellas...

 

[2000StreetRod]

Missing guide post

There have not been any significant changes in the rear guide on the traction side since 1997. Here's a photo of the latest one.

Your engine is missing the guide centering post and the upper section of the guide.

When the upper section of the guide breaks the loose chains contacts the guide centering post. It's possible that the contact eventually unscrewed the post.

If you have good roadside assistance coverage and don't mind waiting by the side of the road for it, you can continue to drive the vehicle until the timing chain slips. If you don't do your own engine repairs, the cost to repair the engine by a mechanic now would probably exceed the cost to replace the engine later when it fails.

 

[narsaw]

There have not been any significant changes in the rear guide on the traction side since 1997. Here's a photo of the latest one.
View attachment 88529
Your engine is missing the guide centering post and the upper section of the guide.
View attachment 88530
When the upper section of the guide breaks the loose chains contacts the guide centering post. It's possible that the contact eventually unscrewed the post.

If you have good roadside assistance coverage and don't mind waiting by the side of the road for it, you can continue to drive the vehicle until the timing chain slips. If you don't do your own engine repairs, the cost to repair the engine by a mechanic now would probably exceed the cost to replace the engine later when it fails.

Thanks [MENTION=111113]2000StreetRod[/MENTION] for your input. I really appreciate everyone's input.

Now I am generally not a word parser but I noticed your used the words "until" and later "when", rather that "if" I take it it was on purpose?

Intuitively it would seems the only way for the chain to slip would be a rapid deceleration by the driver? Or can a speed bump do the trick?

 

[narsaw]

I was watching a video on Youtube from a user named cruzroycruzroy64. He didn't mention the year of the Ford 4.0 V6 he was working on.

I took this screenshot from the video:

I see that same guide post missing, however it didn't notice it and thought the timing on the engine was good. He was replacing the tensioners and chains.

Perhaps that motor as from a different year?

Here is the link to the video:

 

[2000StreetRod]

Chain slip

Any time the oil pressure is low the chain can slip during engine deceleration because then the traction side becomes the slack side and vice versa. With a broken guide the piston will be extended to its limit resulting in excess slack on the slack side reducing the deceleration rate needed for slip to occur. Slip could happen at engine cold start in Park when the PCM switches from open to closed loop and reduces idle speed as the engine warms. It could happen at cruise when cresting a hill. Cassette guide pieces could move and get lodged between the timing chain and the sprocket or between the head and the chain. Another issue is the pieces could work their way down to the oil pan and get lodged in the oil pump pickup tube screen starving the oil pump. However, some forum members have been lucky and driven their vehicle for years with a broken cassette guide. I was in the middle of a remote custom tune when my rear cassette guide broke. I was lucky and drove for several weeks frequently doing WOT pulls but my chain didn't slip. As soon as the tune was finished I replaced my timing chain components.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Left cassette

Cruzroy is a forum member and I helped him replace his timing related components on his 2002 Explorer. That photo you posted is of the front (left/driver side) cassette and not the rear (right/passenger side) cassette.

 

[narsaw]

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate you time. I will keep updating this thread on this issue.

Watch this space..