2009 4.6 3V - leaking coolant from exhaust manifold side

[ColoGuy]

leaking coolant from exhaust manifold side of passenger head gasket - from appearances. It is so crowded that I can't see the exact source. Could be a freeze plug or a plastic thingamajig for all I know.

Happened while towing 3600 pounds incl. the trailer. Temp. was about 70F. Ideal conditions. Engine mileage: 112,000. I've towed three times more weight ten times further with a similar though much higher mileage engine with no issues.

The leak is "moderate" - maybe a cup every 10 minutes. Not mixing with engine oil yet.

Had this motor installed by mechanic 1/2 year ago. It was flawless until tow job involving 160 miles.

Oddly I can't find pertinent youtube videos. Doesn't seem to be a common problem.

Thinking it may be related to the recent engine swap. This was the first "hard work" the newer engine has received.

The overflow box somehow self drained while sitting for three weeks. The fluid just seemingly disappeared, I was gone most of the time. The leak doesn't get going until driving. Just idling with no driving? No leaks happen.

Looking for alternatives. Thanks in advance for thoughtful help.

 

[Larryjb]

If this is the passenger side exhaust manifold, there is a Y connector for the rear heater that often leaks. If you look carefully, one of the branches of the Y go down almost touching the exhaust manifold itself. Either the Y or the branch going by the exhaust manifold could be your leak.

I had this go on me while on vacation in Anaheim. A dealer replaced this pipe for about $1200 USD. The guy left the pipe touching the exhaust manifold and so it burned through within a year and I had to replace it myself. I was not happy about that.

While you are looking for leaks, take a peak clamps on the rear heater lines by the spare tire. Those often rust and begin leaking.

 

[ColoGuy]

If this is the passenger side exhaust manifold, there is a Y connector for the rear heater that often leaks. If you look carefully, one of the branches of the Y go down almost touching the exhaust manifold itself. Either the Y or the branch going by the exhaust manifold could be your leak.

I had this go on me while on vacation in Anaheim. A dealer replaced this pipe for about $1200 USD. The guy left the pipe touching the exhaust manifold and so it burned through within a year and I had to replace it myself. I was not happy about that.

While you are looking for leaks, take a peak clamps on the rear heater lines by the spare tire. Those often rust and begin leaking.

You seem to be referring to the approx. 3/4" black plastic Y. That is not the source. But I do suspect it could be something unseen other than the head gasket. Hope so. Wish I could see it, it is so crowded in that area. Going to look again right now. Who knows?

Edited - is a Y and not a T. That same thing snapped in half on my Prius. Perhaps the goat stepped on it. $1200 sounds ridiculous for repair.

 

[Larryjb]

Take a close look at that corrugated metallic shield shown in the center of the picture. You can see some black on the lower end of the shield caused by the rubber heater hose being burned through by the exhaust manifold.

It could also be the clamp down there. It's not hard to remove the plastic inner wheel well to see this clearly.

 

[ColoGuy]

Take a close look at that corrugated metallic shield shown in the center of the picture. You can see some black on the lower end of the shield caused by the rubber heater hose being burned through by the exhaust manifold.

It could also be the clamp down there. It's not hard to remove the plastic inner wheel well to see this clearly.

View attachment 317558

You saved me a lot of headache. The exhaust manifold melted through the aluminum barrier then the hose.
All I need is the hose but that Y connector could be problematic. I am not schooled in removing such plastic connections and break a certain percentage of them. On the other hand, I have heater hose I could use if I could remove the existing hose from the connector. Saving me plenty of time and money.

This Dorman at Amazon seems a reasonable solution: Amazon.com: Dorman 626-551 HVAC Heater Hose Assembly: Automotive

I'd the bet the engine swap was done slightly wrong. Either that or a very, very serious factory design flaw.

People complained of a 3/4" hose while needing just 5/8" but mine also has a 3/4" hose.

Got a few projects going on so rambling a bit.

 

[Larryjb]

I'm glad you found it, especially before it totally blew up on you going up a long hill in the middle of a Colorado desert!

Don't count on the Dorman one. It had a different diameter of heater hose on one of the ends.and wouldn't fit. I think it was a 3/4" vs 5/8" issue. I ended up just buying the Ford one which is very pricey.

If you can find the right adapters, you might be able to make the Dorman one work.

 

[ColoGuy]

Plastic barrier painted aluminum color. Pathetic! Whoever made that decision ought to be hung at high noon.

 

[Larryjb]

Actually, the "plastic" is probably a good idea. Aluminum would conduct the heat very easily from the manifold to the hose. The fact that it's a type of plastic probably saved you from a catastophic failure on the road. The real "geneous" in all this is the routing so close to the exhaust manifold.

 

[ColoGuy]

I believe this can only happen to vehicles with the auxiliary rear heater option. I cut the hose and plugged both sides. Should get the job done until the new hose assembly shows up. A lot of people get leaks from that plastic Y connector. So replacing that plastic connector with a steel one seems prudent.

 

[ColoGuy]

Actually, the "plastic" is probably a good idea. Aluminum would conduct the heat very easily from the manifold to the hose. The fact that it's a type of plastic probably saved you from a catastophic failure on the road. The real "geneous" in all this is the routing so close to the exhaust manifold.

Pretty sure you have crossed up your understanding of insulation. Plastic is indeed a good insulator - until it melts (which it certainly will do when laying against the exhaust manifold). Which aluminum is far less likely to do. Steel or iron would conduct the heat very well.

 

[Larryjb]

It can't actually be a plastic. I'm not sure what it is, but it did survive a whole year in contact with my exhaust manifold and did not melt. It took a year to burn through. Whatever it is, that silver corrugated shield must be good stuff, but it wasn't meant to be in physical contact.

 

[ColoGuy]

It is a somewhat high temp plastic but plastic nonetheless. Mine was also ok until I towed a load.

This issue has not become famous because it only happens when the vehicle has the optional rear heater core for the back of the vehicle. Then the plastic melts when the engine is working harder than normal.

My plastic "shield" has a 2" hole burned into it. They even had the gall to paint it aluminum at the factory!

I will consider this the next time I buy a vehicle. Ford is hurting because Ford has made too many huge and costly mistakes for the consumer in the past 15 years. Coming from a guy with six Fords and Lincolns.

 

[Larryjb]

Unfortunately all auto manufacturers are doing crazy things these days. They always have, but it seems to be getting worse. It comes down what what crazy things do you want to fix.

That shield we are talking about was never supposed to be touching the exhaust manifold. The real engineering error was routing the pipe so close to the manifold in the first place. GM splits the heater hose pipes by the firewall instead, so it never even comes close to the manifold.

As for Ford having too many huge and costly mistakes, my 2002 Tahoe hasn't been a winner either. It leaks oil from multiple places. I just replaced the rear main seal myself and they use a rear cover as well as a rear main seal. It was the cover that was leaking, and the gasket had flattened out completely causing the leak. GM is knows for cracking nylon coolant fittings near the heater core. Fortunately they are easy to change, but when they let go you're dead in the water unless you happen to have come clamps and fittings with you to bypass the heater core to get you home. The thermostat is down low on the front of the engine. If it leaks, you have to drain the cooling system to change it. I had a cracked head as well. GM has issues with its Active Fuel Management, but those have improved a lot in recent years.

The best car I have ever owned was a 1992 Mercury Grand Marquis. That car was pretty much trouble free for 25 years. It has a new owner now who is driving it as far as I know.

I'm not sure about Toyotas, Hondas, Nissans, etc, but they are usually overpriced where I live because people believe they last better. I'm not sure how true that is once a vehicle is 10-20 years old. Even if it is so, I doubt I'd save in the end as long as I do my own repairs.

However, I, too, will probably not be buying Ford again, but that is because of their Ecoboost engine. It is a much more complicated and harder to service engine than GM's Active Fuel Management system.

 

[94Eddie]

However, I, too, will probably not be buying Ford again, but that is because of their Ecoboost engine. It is a much more complicated and harder to service engine than GM's Active Fuel Management system.

I probably won't buy another Ford again either unless it is a Mustang or non Ecoboost F150. I would never buy a turbo vehicle anyway because they are fraught with all kinds of problems and most turbos are done by the time they reach 120k miles, or sooner. One other big reason I will likely never buy another Ford is due to the internal water pump in the 3.5L V6 transverse mounted engines. The chances of a catastrophic pump failure taking out the engine is too high for me. Then add to this the cost and compexity of replacing the water pump and it is more reason to avoid these cars. This engine has been in so many Ford vehicles that most of their lineup for the past 10-15 years is off limits for me. Especially since I do not like four cylinder vehicles.

 

[ColoGuy]

The Dorman unit at Amzon works well if you remove a glued on clamp and replace it with a screw type clamp for the smaller fitting. Plus it has a metal Y instead of the plastic Y that is known to go out.

I'm sure the engine installer neglected something that left the hose next to the exhaust manifold. I could tell the company but I don't see it helping me. Have many other problems right now to attend to.

 

[Larryjb]

There are clips holding the Y pipe away from the exhaust manifold near the front of the engine, but nothing specific holding the pipe away as it goes down to the back. I read somewhere that some guy put a strap on the hose near the back to keep it pulled away from the exhaust manifold.

 

[DavidEBSmith]

+ 1 on the Dorman part. I replaced the Y connector the first time with the expensive Ford part and it failed again. The Dorman hasn't failed yet (jinx) and it's cheaper. My guy who's a Ford dealer tech approved of it.

 

[ColoGuy]

There are clips holding the Y pipe away from the exhaust manifold near the front of the engine, but nothing specific holding the pipe away as it goes down to the back. I read somewhere that some guy put a strap on the hose near the back to keep it pulled away from the exhaust manifold.

I used two zip ties for as much distance as possible. It will do much better than last time. Last time was OK until I towed 3000 pounds plus trailer.

 

[il66pony]

I used two zip ties for as much distance as possible. It will do much better than last time. Last time was OK until I towed 3000 pounds plus trailer.

So I have the same leak on my 2007 Mountaineer as the original poster from a year plus ago. I just ordered the Dormann part from Amazon - $68. I looked for a YouTube video like the OP but still nothing out there.
Can anyone provide some points on how to replace it? Will draining the radiator be enough to prevent a flood when I take off the old hose? Seems like I have to take the wheel and inner fender apron off. Are there other parts that have to be removed to get to the three connections?

Thanks in advance.

Dave

 

[Bazz270]

Hi

1.drain coolant.
2.remove air filter housing and air inlet piping.

Fender or wheel remove are not nessesary,but will make your job easer

Thats all

In my opinion
The problem with OEM part could be only the manifold exhaust high temp leak or high mileage heat aging.

No any reason for new or relatively fresh PA Nylon6 Y-shape fitting or EPDM coolant hoses to be brittle even with minimum distance from exhaust manifold shield.

By the way,Dorman part uses very cheap heat shields and valve cover pin mount.

Also
Diameter of dorman rear heater hose much bigger that metal vehicle piping inlet and it should leak even with worm type clamp installed.