2020 explorer "twists" during acceleration

[BobT2k]

So I've been having an issue for a while and I'm not really sure what its related to... i don't think its a problem with the as-built vehicle, but probably some combination of a part / service / me not being able to explain it to the service... so posting it here since I've seen some good feedback when others have had problems.

The basic issue is that I've noticed a severe degradation in handling back in the December / January timeframe... at first when turning right at highway speeds I'd notice the Explorer start to sway and/or track back and forth across the lane... and sometimes the sway would continue when heading strait after that. I'd also notice when going strait that it would track fine, then steer to one side of the lane or anther...

After the most recent service, at least so far, I'm not noticing the turning issue as month, but am noticing the the sway when going straight even more.. AND now noticing that when i accelerate the car "twists"... the rear feels as if it "slides" to the left... then when take foot of the gas notice it twist back.

during the most recent service, they did alignment and noted the rear right wheel was way out alignment. Part of the reason we started digging deeper was that the rear right tire wore (Evenly) much faster than the rest of the car... it lasted only 10k and was down to the indicator. the left tire was in better shape though close behind it. the front tires showed normal ware.

I mentioned this started in December/January... in December there was a warranty service where they had to replace one the rear axle... bushing were bad. Started to noticed the car feeling "looser" around then, but, also noted the tires were reaching the end of their life... In January I had the tires replaced (got 36k out of the stock streetpack tires) and replaced them with Michelin Pilot Sport A/S4's. Really started to notice the the swaying then. In february in for service .. dealer said front axles and replaced them under warranty... when i left the alignment was off (it drove straight, but the steering wheel was about 5% off-center to do so.. they fixed that the next dat and while the care was not back to where it was in the fall, it was better (or i got used to it.) drove about 7k after that until this month when went in for an oil change and noted that the rear right was worn (funny thing is i was watching the tires for a funny wear pattern... which it didn't have, but that's the one tire i rarely walked past so didn't notice the wear. had the rear tires replaced under michelline warranty (actually on the front now... last generation on the back... and that's when tehy did the most recent alignment). When they did the alignment, they also checked for suspension issues and said there were none.

So sorry for the long winded email , if nothing else it was cathartic for me to write it down... but any suggestions on what to push them to look at?
- Could this be a while bearing? there's been no sounds indicating it... but it certainly seems like something is "loose"
- should i look for a differently place to check the alignment? I'm starting to wonder about the dealer's capability when it comes to alignments...
-could this be a sway bar issue?
-could this be a strut issue?
- Are the Michelin Sport A/S 4 tires that much different than the stock pirelli's? I expected to feel the road more, and get some trolly tracking... but the sway / rear end twist just makes hte car feel too loose

And if i do need to switch locations, anyone have a good service center in north-jersey they would recommend talking to?

 

[Fix4Dirt]

no 6g owner, but i so remember a diff recall iirc for the 1 bolt ones

 

[BobT2k]

no 6g owner, but i so remember a diff recall iirc for the 1 bolt ones

yeah, it has the 2 bolts.. .that makes me think to take a look and make sure they are both still there when i walk out to the parking lot...

 

[peterk9]

Do you have both Lane Centering and Lane Keeping turned OFF?

Peter

 

[BobT2k]

Do you have both Lane Centering and Lane Keeping turned OFF?

Peter

Yeah, they are off. and this is more than gentle nudge. And the "twist" is definately something in the power train... and repeatable ... step on the gas it twists up.... foot of the gas down. Almost like an engine mount or something... but only really noticeable at speed..... where as an engine mount (maybe incorrectly) i think would would noticeable starting off...

 

[peterk9]

Dealer time I would guess. Do you still have warranty?

Peter

 

[BobT2k]

Dealer time I would guess. Do you still have warranty?

Peter

its been at the dealer for all of these services... including last week when it came back with the steering wheel miss-aligned and still having an issue ( the new tires also had 50lbs of air in them... which I thought may be the issue and why Ididn't turn right around and go back to the dealer when i picked it up.). I do have the extended warranty. The dealer has done all of these services... and either this is such unique problem they are having difficulty too, or i need to find a new dealer. hence the brainstorming here (and thanks for the help).

Fortunately or unfortunately I live in an area where there are multiple dealers in driving distance... Also wondering if i should escalate this above the dealer (And how i would do that)....

 

[peterk9]

It seems this could be classified as a safety issue. You could try the Regional Customer Service Manager or contact Ford directly and perhaps have them open a case for you.

Peter

 

[nekkidhillbilly]

sounds like a busted bushing causing parts to move but not actually be loose since its in the rear it sounds.

 

[BobT2k]

Yes…. Now that you say that it makes a lot of sense… I’ll try to crawl under and see if I can see anything (though doubt it..) but googling those symptoms (including handling at high speed and tire wear) that is my new front runner.

 

[Spacey]

Since the dealer "aligned" your vehicle and gave it back to you with the steering wheel offset, I would question their competence doing this sort of stuff. Also, why did the axles need to be replaced during one of your repairs? That could point to a more significant issues. The improperly worn tire is also a clue to something being loose, out of alignment, or too much weight on that wheel. Failures in the AWD system can also cause the type of symptoms you describe. The Chicago assembly plant has had a lot of issues with build quality, so it could have left the factory with inherent problems.

Most dealers only do alignment work as a secondary service and the technicians aren't proficient at suspension work. I suggest you take the vehicle to be evaluated by a suspension specialist. Even if you decide to have the dealer perform repairs for warranty reasons, you could have a specialist diagnose the issue and bring the results to the dealer. You would want someone who specializes in AWD vehicles like Audi, Porsche, etc. If you don't know one, you could contact a local race club, specialized car club, or maybe even a sports car dealer for a recommendation. Where I live in Southern California the local high end sports car dealers farm out this work to the same suspension specialist. They don't have a whole bunch of high tech computer controlled equipment, they have competent, experienced people; and charge for the knowledge too.

 

[BobT2k]

For those playing along at home.... Loose bolt on the suspension in question.

 

[peterk9]

For those playing along at home.... Loose bolt on the suspension in question.

Was that the issue?

 

[BobT2k]

Was that the issue?

Issue was the combined abnormal tire wear, strange alignment behavior, poor handling at higher speeds and as of late weird repeatable behavior when accelerating. After chasing through multiple troubleshooting they ultimately found a loose bolt... and when properly tightened, all of the above went away (abnormal tire wear TBD....). Issue started after I had new tires put on (I clearly remember the first time i felt it... 2 days after the tires....) so i have no idea if it was something that worked itself loose over the first 36k miles or the result of a precious service. And while i think they should have figured this out earlier, I do get that it was hard to replicate until the most recent time when the twisting happened during acceleration that was repeatable. Each time i had it in, they found something and fixed it and it test drove fine... until a few days later when i'd get to highway speeds and hit the unique conditions that would make the issue occur. As someone said above, a suspension expert probably would have narrowed it down / diagnosed it straightaway... but to be honest, i wasn't convinced it wasn't the tires at first...

 

[07EddyB]

From the symptoms and the eventual vague fix - I'd say they stripped a bolt during the alignment and found it - 'tightened' it - and again - until they finally replaced it. Did they give you a print out of what they did and what they replaced? I'll bet they didn't.
As an aside - I'll bet the problem the OP just had wouldn't have been noticed by 90% of the people driving and would have never been fixed.
Kudos to you for noticing and following up until you have (we hope) a final solution.

 

[blakshukvw]

Sounds like a bad control arm bushing in the rear.

 

[BobT2k]

Sounds like a bad control arm bushing in the rear.

We’ll … if it comes back then I bet your right. But right now it’s fixed.

 

[BobT2k]

From the symptoms and the eventual vague fix - I'd say they stripped a bolt during the alignment and found it - 'tightened' it - and again - until they finally replaced it. Did they give you a print out of what they did and what they replaced? I'll bet they didn't.
As an aside - I'll bet the problem the OP just had wouldn't have been noticed by 90% of the people driving and would have never been fixed.
Kudos to you for noticing and following up until you have (we hope) a final solution.

Of course they were “still working on the paperwork” and there was “no charge so just take it”. I think it’s worse than that to be honest… I think they didn’t fully torque the bolt 6 months ago and it’s been slowly working loose…. If it weren’t for the new tires in the mix I would have pushed on it sooner…and kick myself for not doing so now… but yeah… I bet a lot of folks would have just chalked it up to new tires and the way it handles and lived with it until something really broke.

We’ll see if this truly fixed it… I took it on 40 Mike test drive (the beauty of conference calls..) over many of the normal spots it would act up… the twisting is gone… and didn’t experience the pulling or wobble… but I’ll be driving into Manhattan today and tomorrow so after those streets and such we’ll see…

 

[slow3v]

Of course they were “still working on the paperwork” and there was “no charge so just take it”. I think it’s worse than that to be honest… I think they didn’t fully torque the bolt 6 months ago and it’s been slowly working loose…. If it weren’t for the new tires in the mix I would have pushed on it sooner…and kick myself for not doing so now… but yeah… I bet a lot of folks would have just chalked it up to new tires and the way it handles and lived with it until something really broke.

We’ll see if this truly fixed it… I took it on 40 Mike test drive (the beauty of conference calls..) over many of the normal spots it would act up… the twisting is gone… and didn’t experience the pulling or wobble… but I’ll be driving into Manhattan today and tomorrow so after those streets and such we’ll see…

Hey Bob, what was the resolution here? I had my RDU replaced and now I Have these symptoms.

 

[BobT2k]

Hey Bob, what was the resolution here? I had my RDU replaced and now I Have these symptoms.

Loose bolt when they reassembled it. It took me taking the service manager for a ride and him feeling the car twist. Once he felt it, he agreed it was wrong and knew what test to see if it was fixed. Took them almost 2 whole days until they figured it out… but I’ve but 20k on the vehicle since without a problem….