331 Stroker Swap

[RFR2212]

I figured it was about time to start this thread. First off, my name is Pete, and I've got a 91 4x4 sport. I started tossing this idea around after seeing too many people go through their trannies, and I wanted to never be stuck w/ a broken tranny.....All is fine right now, but I'm not gonna take a chance. I also am addicted to the sound of a sweet 5.0 and I also wanna have fun w/ a really custom truck.

I searched www.corral.net and came up with a 90 302 HO stang motor. For 800 bucks, I got nearly everything under the hood, back to the tranny. See the pick up of the motor in this thread: http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=26357

I immediately started disassembling the whole motor, and it is now all in pieces in the garage. Some parts labeled, some lying around, screaming to get lost. After the disassembly, I contacted www.dssracing.com about rebuilding my current motor. I will be turning my block in for a core charge, and they will provide me with a 331 stroked block and running/spinning gear. This is going to cost me approximatly $1200 for this work. I plan on having my stock heads ported and polished and the valves reseated, etc.

My plans are to rebuild a tough motor, with lots of options for future additions. This is just the beginning of a LONG process. I am also planning on mating all of this through a C-4 tranny and a twin stick dana 20. I will most likely use the James Duff swap parts. I've heard nothing but good news about them. This my not look overly fancy, or jaw dropping, but I want a quality install that will be able to withstand anything.

*stepping off soap box*

Thanks,
Pete

 

[Brian1]

Cool you are going with the D20 twin stick! Remember to take lots of pictures and keep us posted.

 

[RFR2212]

Lol...yeah, pictures....I do need to take lots of them...I do have some photos But they haven't been devloped yet. Also, the expected time to do this whole deal is the end of July, beginnin of August....but of course...the sooner the better!

Pete

 

[Gofast]

Another 5.0 pre 95 4X4

Pete, Sounds like an awesome build! Hopefully mine will be done by then. The only advice I can give is to be patient. There are many things I could have and would do different next time. I hurried in a few places and it actually slowed me down. Now I step back and set small goals on a weekly basis. This week I'm focused on mounting the radiator.

Have fun, and can't wait to hear it.

 

[RFR2212]

Good news and bad news......

Well, i've encountered problems, and I havent even started! SCHWEET! Well, when I called about the 331 stroker, I was quoted the price for the kit, and not the built block. The built block is 1800, which is out of my alotted funds. This would use no parts from my stock block in my garage, rendering it useless. As it turns out, a diving buddy of my dads was over and was a porsche mechanic. He took a peek at the the cylinders and says they look perfect. There is no visible wear, and can tell the guy that i got it from didnt beat the motor. In his opinion, there would be no need to be any machining. As I plan now, I will get a 2nd opinion on this, just to be on the safe side, and get a guy I know to build it for me. He's well exprienced in mustangs, and knows what to do with them. (It would also be less expensive this rout, and would still end up w/ stock mustang power, which is still a kick in the ass compared to the 4.0 in there now)

Problem/statement 2: I've been tossing the idea around to keep my T-5 manual. This would save me tons of time and money in getting manual to auto swap parts. Also, the guy who I was going to get my C-4 and Dana 20 t-case hasnt responed to emails. Although he's always been slow, this is nearly 3 weeks slow.(works alot) I'm thinking now, that I can get a fully rebuilt Dana 20 t-case for 400, and get the adapter to my T-5. I think this will come out a lil less expensive(overall), but i will get lower gearing, and it would take me alot less work to hunt down all the tranny parts. I know people will harp b/c im wheelin in the midwest mud...and that manuals can be harder to drive in the mud, but with better gearing, I believe I will do just fine. Thank god I haven't started this project just yet, and am still in the planning stages..... Any thoughts?
(now suffering from carpal tunnel syndrome)
Thanks
Pete

 

[DOGMAN]

Pete -

One simple word of advice, or actually a revelation: Be prepared for this project to cost you more than you think it will now. Many little things that add up; Gofast can back me up on this, I'm sure.

About DSS: heard quite a few non-favorable things about them from numerous people on the corral. Sounds like you had your own non-favorable encounter.

With your budget, I'd stay away from the stroker. You'll be spending A LOT more money with a stroker, and your durability will suffer. The 331 will have more longevity than a 347, but it still won't last as long as a stock 302, or 0.030" bored over 302, which is a 306. The longer rod lengths coupled with the increased circumference of the crank path of the stroker create more lateral force on the piston, which in turn makes it harder for the rings to make a good seal on the cylinder wall, and also wears the rings faster. Sure, you can make some impressive power with the stroker, but it will cost you down the road with decreased longevity. There are many ways to pull quite a bit more HP and torque out of a normally aspirated 302 or 306. But then again, anytime you increase HP, whatever the method, it's going to cost you money. Something to think about.

Transmissions: Since you already have a T-5, that's the least expensive route. But a built C-4 will be MUCH stronger. Of course the T-5 has an overdrive, which will give you better mileage on the street and highway; the C-4 doesn't. I'm using a built AOD, which solves the overdrive problem, and gives me the auto that I desire. But a built AOD isn't cheap, and it sounds like you're on a pretty tight budget.

Many things to consider, many paths that can be taken, all leading to a badass, custom V-8 Explorer. For most of us, it's a major project that requires quite a bit of knowledge, as well as parts, to be gathered. So take your time and keep learning, the knowledge is out there. The finished product will be something to be proud of.

 

[RFR2212]

Well, luckly I've still got a bit of time on my hands....I'm outta school and back to my normal job in less than a month, and then I plan on late July to do the swap. Of course, I'm researching all the time, and right now...My main goal has sorta shifted from somewhat kick ass from the beginning, to reliable, easiest install(if you can even say that) and of course, not digging a grave by over spending money. Now I just want a motor that will last me and what happens in the future from there, is stuff im not worrying about now. Right now, I want to get a 302, under the hood, working properly with out killing myself. I believe the T-5 will do me well while behind the stock 302, and it'll save me alot of cash in adapters, etc. So, the research, and growing of the patience virtue continues.
Pete

 

[BislamJoe]

Use the Schwartz...

I, too, am a poor college student who wants "mo' powa" in his pre-95 explorer. Let me know how all this turns out. I've already decided on most of the stuff for my swap. '93-'96 Mustang 5.0L, AOD, Dana 20 - I've also decided that there will be no professionals involved If i'm going to have a trick truck, escpecially if it's going to be a big modification, I need to know the in's and out's myself. So do you think 5 rednecks, a tree, a chain, and an engine stand could do it? lol.

May the Schwartz be with you.

 

[FMExplorer]

Ya - Do not forget the redneck girl... (or the be4er!)

Bislam - where are you from? The thought sounds great - would like to see the results...

Jon

 

[BislamJoe]

Dang...

I forgot about the chick with beer. There's 5 of us though... we'll need 2 chicks with beer.

 

[Sandy]

How about a F150 Transmission/TC

Just a thought, what about an OD trans and it's mating TC from a later model F150.
It will bolt up to the 5.0L and should be able to handle the power of a rebuilt engine, even with a small cam.

The adapter from an AOD to a Dana 20 TC is not cheap. The one for a C-4 to D20 is about $600.00. The adapter for the T-5 is proably in that area too.

My '88 Ranger 5.0 swap is using a C-4 to stock ranger TC, knock on wood, but it is still holding together (going on six years now). I would not go C-4 again only because of no OD. Hy-way speed has the engine at approx. 3000 rpm, a little too much for a long run.

If I were to try agin and wanted a good stock, dependable package I would look for low mileage F150 parts, i.e. 5.0L, OD trans, F150 TC, all matched together.

One more thing, although I do not have the number with me at the moment, Ford puts out a small manual to assist the wiring when installing an EFI engine into one that did not have one. This manual show the harnesses laid out and defines all the components and where they go. Also it states what to hook up for power to the main harness.

One more thing, look into part to put the engine in from a Mountaineer or from Ford for a Mountaineer, they have V-8s. The Mountaineer also has a special pulley/brkt arrangement to allow for more room up front.
Using the stock Mustang pulleys and brkts will not allow a mechanical fan and the electric fan S___ !!!

Good Luck on the swap!

Keep it on all Four.

 

[BislamJoe]

Hey Jon

This particular "Bislam" chap hails from the nasty end of God's Country. Texarkana Texas. Over right next to Arkansas

 

[NIGHTRANGER5.0]

I can agree with that sandy. I started out with a 75 bronc C4 and d-20. As sandy said it SUCKED on the highway, to the point i hated that trans!

Now i'm running a www.gerperformance.com AOD that's coupled to the d-20 by way of advance adapters.

Trans and 11" 2400 converter cost me $1295. I love it, kicks ass!! Shifts with authority! Cost me $70 to ship from Pa. to northern Mi on a semi.

The d-20 yolk took the same u-joint from my stock 1354 and 8.8

http://projectranger.homestead.com/files/aod.jpg

Once i figure out how to properly scan pics that don't take a hour to load i'll have some more up.

I enjoy every minute behind the wheel of my 5.0 ranger!!

 

[Sandy]

AOD

NIGHTRANGER5.0,

I think I will look into an GER AOD, I need something more on the Hy-way.

I have had not trouble with the stock transfer case, SO FAR, I think I will keep it.

RFR2212,

Why not stick to a 302, RV cam, etc. 331/347 are designed for racing, reliability is always in question.

I just rebuilt a 5.0L, did a few tricks to it, will let you guys know if it works out. (I am hoping for aobuit 360 ft lbs of torque for a high but I am aiming for about 300+ at 2200-2400 range. We will see!

Let us at the site know what is happening with the engine and what you decide to do.

Tnx,

 

[Troll]

331 power

MY friend has a 331 in his mustang with a NOVI 2000 and Dart Heads. Today he went to the dyno and with 19 psi of boost he made 690 rear wheel HP. I was impressed I hope you guys can make some good power too.
Troll

 

[Sandy]

Why so much HP ?

Nane of the game in the rocks, woods and trailriding is GEARING not horse power.

Where would you use that much power in the woods, well I guess if you want to drag race your truck the HP would come in handy.

I have always subscribed to KISS, "Keep It Simple Stupid" (Stupid is me). I always went for Balls to Wall on everything I built and that is the way I used to drive. Too many broken pieces and I finially realized, what am i doing. Now I build for reliability, reasonable power though.

Good Luck in what ever you decide to do. Build it your way is a good moto, no one to blame it something goes wrong.

 

[RFR2212]

It's been awhile......

Well, there is a small tid bit of info to update here. As all my racing and hot rod buddies told me, I went to the machine shop the told me about. Opal Automotive Engineering located in Streamwood, IL. I went in and a lady took all my info and told me to back up the the garage door to unload. Here I was greeted and helped by one of the employees. After unloading alot of crap (block, crank, pistons, cam, lifters and pushrods) he looked everything over. He thought it looked to be in pretty darn good shape for the claimed 101k milage on it all. This week, they're gonna get measurements on everything to see what needs to be done. So within a week, I should know what needs to be done, and the approx 4-6 weeks is the ETA. They will most likely do all the machine work I need and build the motor though the pistons.

So that is my lil update as I'm very optomistic right now..... Only cause I know I'll adventually hit slow and tough times with this project.
Pete

 

[Sandy]

Good first step, get an engine together.

My rebuild, this time around, was the same way have the machine shop build the short block. Was not real expensive either about $300.00 to build it up.

I see in the first message that you are using Duff's adapters, good stuff but look into the L&L products, they are really good. Life time warranty on most of the part in the kit. You get Motor Mounts, Oil Pan - modified to fit in the explorer with independent suspension, Oil Filter Relocation kit - these part are relly good machinings, and Headers - the heavyest in the industry and garrantied for life, I think that is it, but may be more. L&L parts are the best in quality and warranty.

Consider using an AOD Transmission, the first gear is a little lower which can help in either off-road or when you first take off and the OD will help on the road, especially if you regear for larger tires. The OD is controllable be the gear shift and doesn't have to be use. The AOD will cost more than the C-4 but believe me, it will be worth it. I have been using a C-4 for almost six year and I have finally come to my senses, the RPM on the street is too much. I have ordered a GER AOD should be here shortly.

Good Luck,

 

[BislamJoe]

Ok, now my swap plans are coming of age. I found a 5.0L from a '92 mustang with harness/computer, supposedly runs. $150. I'm guessing that "150" is a typo, surely it's 1500.... anyway; I now need to find a tranny donor. I'll eventually have the tranny rebuilt, but for now i need something to get me here and there behind the v8. Loaded question: What is the best automatic transmission for me? I need decent gas mileage on the highway, strength, reliability, and gear ratios appropriate for off-roading. Help?!?

 

[RFR2212]

Ah ha...I have forgot one thing in my update.....
I will be keeping the T-5 manual due to funding and simplicity.... I am kinda ticked though.....This motor and tranny came from a totaled mustang....and well. the frame musta bent, and the bellhousing is cracked....Too far to be welded....So that is another thing I get to fix now....
Pete