3rd Gen Explorer mods

[awdrocks]

I called Hughes Performance and they have heavy duty 4R70W trannys. He said they have seen a 10sec (2nd gen) explorer awd with the stock tranfer case holding up. Interesting.

How about just finding a doner Expedition tranny from a 4.6 model. The tranfer case should be the same size as ours. If we can get a complete harness and computer from an expo what do you think would be easier... a stand alone as you mentioned, or make the expo computer and harness work?

EDIT: took out nonsence

 

[rocket 5979]

I called Hughes Performance and they have heavy duty 4R70W trannys. He said they have seen a 10sec (2nd gen) explorer awd with the stock tranfer case holding up. Interesting.

How about just finding a doner Expedition tranny from a 4.6 model. The tranfer case should be the same size as ours. If we can get a complete harness and computer from an expo what do you think would be easier... a stand alone as you mentioned, or make the expo computer and harness work?

EDIT: took out nonsence

First off I would like to state again, for clarification, that I am 2 wheel drive only. I bought this truck off the showroom floor with intentions of modding it for racing then. I wanted the lighter less complicated 2 wheel drive because I knew this would never see off road duty.

The tranny for the Expedition is possible, but it owuld be weaker than a built 4R70W tranny which was made for the mustang GT's up till 2004. I dont know what tranny the expeditions with the 4.6's had. Probably the same one I am thinking. If you run any other tranny besides the 5R55W tranny then you will need to run a standalone tranny computer for it too. The reason being is that the 4R70W trannys are made to interact with a EEC-V computer system and not a P-TEC CAN computer system. Like getting an apple tree to produce oranges. Dont worry an aweful lot though, the 05 GT's aftermarket will pick up more here soon and hopefully someone will have to address the tranny issues with them, and in turn address them for us. If I were you I would be patient as we dont kno what stuff other companies got planned for th 5R. I would love ot use the 5 speed auto tranny in my truck! Smoother shifts and keeps it in the powerband better too, but we will have to be patient and see on that one. Till then I will plan for the 4R70W swap in mine.

 

[awdrocks]

ya your totally right. By the time im ready to do my tranny... who knows what will be out for the 5/55

for now im going to keep on hammering on my project and ill let everyone know my results. Should be interesting. Im going to put that relay switch as well... cant wait to get siiideee waaaaayss

 

[awdrocks]

what your opinion with this wideband?

http://store.summitracing.com/defau...earchinresults=false&N=0&target=egnsearch.asp

 

[psychotic]

how hard was your supercharger install? Few/little modifications, direct bolt on, lots of stuff different??? and what $$$ range did that cost you?

 

[awdrocks]

how hard was your supercharger install? Few/little modifications, direct bolt on, lots of stuff different??? and what $$$ range did that cost you?

It was not to hard at all. AED suppies you with a pretty detailed 20 or so page instruction manuel on the entire process. Had to cut and refinish some vacum lines at back, splice two lines from the MAF to the new air temp sensor on the plenum. Mount the radiator and electric pump for the air-to-water system. Got some voltage from one of the fuel injectors to supply the electric water pump. Re-route most of the vacum lines and lost some as well. Wire up the new injectors. Those little details are what take the longest. The rest just basically bolts right on. Lose the stock intake and this takes its place. Very clean and factory looking.

One has to make sure all the lines are clear from heat and moving parts etc.

It also came with and SCT Xcalibrator to reflash the compter. Once it was all finished we flashed the computer.... and vroooom.

A bad MAF connection leaned out my A/F and carboned two piston rings and lost compression in those two pistons. I was just going to rebuild with the stock pistons/rods becasue they were in such good shape... but then I decided to forge the bottom end and never look back. Besides the stock setup won't handle 9psi.

An experienced mechanic can probably do the tranformation in 8-10 hours. We took like 4 days, 6-7 hour days. But we took our time and made sure everything was put together nicely. If we had to do it all over again we could do it in about half the time.

Its a REAL nice system and can last for 150,000 miles easy. The system contains: the charger with 6psi and 9psi pully, 30lbs injectors, 70mm Throttle body air-water intercooler, electric pump and all the hoses and wires needed. AED put this on many 100% stock explorer and mountaineers and had excelent results, with 6psi.

The entire system put me back about $4,500 and that included shipping (110lbs) and the SCT hardware.

The bad news? AED (Allen Engineering Designs) went out of business. Closed Dec 04. I beleive there is another distributor around somewhere. Or maybe just direct from Eaton.

Well depending on how my future goes as far as work. Time will only tell when I take the extra dive into the motor and go really crazy. If I do I will definetly put my supercharger for sale here.

What future mods do have have in mind or lined up???

 

[rocket 5979]

For the record. Our trucks and same with the mustang GT's with the 4.6 2 valve engines with PI heads will handle 9 psi on the stock internals just fine. Even with a positive displacement supercharger like a roots or twin screw wont twist it too much. It all depends on the tune. Go to any mustang board and ask what the people running the 9 psi KB 1.7L kitsm most will tell you that they are running their stock longblock. Now if they went up any further or added ports heads or cams or such then a build would be justified. Of course it is on borrowed time and luck of the draw. I have seen people run a charger in their vehicle to the tune of 13 psi on the stock 4.6 longblock and run it hard for 100,000 miles on a great tune. I also seen people blow their engines on the dyno while making their first pulls. I will drop the KB on my stock engine with the 9 psi pulley at first. It should lat just fine with the proper tune. Then I with that engine still running good(I.E. not purposely blowing it because I plan a build anyways) I will replace it with a VT built bottom end. Bottom line with all my garbled stuff I just said is that the stock longblock will last if given the right tune. I would be more worried about the tranny going before the internals.

 

[awdrocks]

I've heard of three naturally aspirated 4.6L 2V engines with broken ring lands. No boost and no nitrous. So 1-psi is enough to destroy these hypereutectic pistons. They have a high contant of silicone in these hypereutectic pistons and the ring lands are very weak. You can go faily long with a good dyno tune and intercooled supercharger at 6psi.

A guy went 3 years with 6psi and an fmu rev-1 kit. He says he then got greedy and switched to a larger 80mm MAF, 30lbs injectors, SCT flash and a good tune with 9psi... he went 6 months and he busted his ring lands.

AED worns you with installing the 9psi pully with stock pistons. They have seen many piston ring land failers with 9psi. But you said it... its all on borrowed time.

If you decide to install 9psi with stock pistons I wish you all the luck possible, I just hope you dont regret it soon after. As for 350hp or so the trannys will be fine... and for the rear diffs you need to be more concerded as psychotic and I have limited slip front and rears and can handle much more. But im sure youll upgrade that right away.

Heres a piston land story:

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=63683

 

[rocket 5979]

I've heard of three naturally aspirated 4.6L 2V engines with broken ring lands. No boost and no nitrous. So 1-psi is enough to destroy these hypereutectic pistons. They have a high contant of silicone in these hypereutectic pistons and the ring lands are very weak. You can go faily long with a good dyno tune and intercooled supercharger at 6psi.

A guy went 3 years with 6psi and an fmu rev-1 kit. He says he then got greedy and switched to a larger 80mm MAF, 30lbs injectors, SCT flash and a good tune with 9psi... he went 6 months and he busted his ring lands.

AED worns you with installing the 9psi pully with stock pistons. They have seen many piston ring land failers with 9psi. But you said it... its all on borrowed time.

If you decide to install 9psi with stock pistons I wish you all the luck possible, I just hope you dont regret it soon after. As for 350hp or so the trannys will be fine... and for the rear diffs you need to be more concerded as psychotic and I have limited slip front and rears and can handle much more. But im sure youll upgrade that right away.

Heres a piston land story:

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=63683

I have heard of at least 30 Kenne Bell'ed stangs running at 9 psi on the stock engine and purring like kittens even after 60,000 miles. There are exceptions to every rule. I have also heard of 03 Cobra guys killing a stock engine (650+rwhp reliable in stock form) with a bad tune. The internals will stand up to 9 psi. It is a gamble as to how long. Alot of people are lucky. Some arent. Long term I would reccomend a build for even 9 psi. Shorter term I would not deem it necessary, but advisable. These hypeuretic pistons are not really strong but WITH A GOOD TUNE they will hold pretty damn well. I am not saying that a person needs a magical tune. I am just saying that as long as the tune doesnt let you go lean anywhere within your range or otherwise cause detonation that you should be good. The reason AED warns about that is the same reason KB will warn about their 9 psi kits. Because it is possible that breakage will occur. To cover their own butts they need to put that disclaimer in there. Our engines have the same internals and a stronger block than the stocker GT's do. Most of the time people blame an engine failure on putting too much power through it when most of the time a bad tune was to blame. If your vehicle is a daily driver and you have no other form of transportation then I would make sure everything was spot on. These engine can, have, and will last with 9 psi when done correctly. I have seen it before and we will see it again. Building an engine for running a 9 psi kit is a personal choice. If you want to play it safe then great. But if you dont have the funds white yet, then you can run the stock internals too.

The clutch packs in those trannies will go soon after or right around the same power level as the engine when running boost. Especially on a PD type charger which makes alot of torque down low, which is great for getting our behemoths off the line but terrible for shock to the driveline in the lower rpms. These are not just guesses on my part, this is real world experience by myself, by fellow gearheads, and professional engine, tranny, and axle builders that I have had detailed conversations with over the last years.

 

[awdrocks]

If your tuned bad at 1psi or 6psi, your motor is toast. AED warns you about 9psi because its very possible to break something, not because they ASUME your going to have a bad tune but rather because its to hard on the hypereutectic pistons. In that case they wouldnt even take on the liability on installing a hypereutectic piston motor with 6psi because if their going to asume a bad tune with 9psi they might as well asume it with 6psi. So they are assuming perfect tunes on both levels of psi. 9psi will MOST likely break piston lands. They too have real world experience and are profesionals.

Its not the luck of the draw, its like you say how well your tune is. Jim from AED told me personally many times that I could take my stock setup with 6psi and hammer 1/4 all day long, he said with 9psi your just playing with fire. They have done countless of roots setups on the 4.6 stock pistons and know from experience where to draw the line.

I am in no way shape or form saying you are guessing in anything and I beleive you that there are fellow modular stock 4.6's that are running with 9psi. A lot of people have different experiences and opinions about this subject... just what ever one desides to do they sure better have a good tune. These piston lands say bye bye on normally aspirated cars. Jim from AED builds the 6psi assuming the customer wants 150,000 miles out of their motors and stock drivetrains. Jim has 140,000 on his crown victoria in stock form. There are 60,000 mile motors purring like kittens as you say but will they reach 150,000 miles? Who knows. My advise is, if one has plans to change out their internals in the near future... then heck... go for the 9psi. But if one has no future plans or MAYBE does, and you dont know if you will forge the bottom end at 20,000 or 150,000 miles down the road, I would play it safe with 6psi. But thats just me.

The tranny yes its a weak point. But I have heard many many stories of engine failers at 6psi or 9psi but not trannys. At 400-500hp its not even a question the tranny or something will go. I am glad you have done extensive resaerch to bulk up our drivetrains, that information is worth gold. I wont add 1 more horsepower before I build up my drivetrain.

I hope that together with your experience and know how we can get these drivetrains worked out. I think thats our biggest obstacle. Until then lets keep on :exp:

 

[rocket 5979]

Business is all about accountability. Some poeple have more confidence in their product than others about their own. Some people will put a bigger safety net of disclaimers for their products because they are less sure of themselves. I am not trying to boost Kenne Bell, their customer service is DIRT, but they are well enough confident to state and stand by that, running 9 psi will be ok on a good running healthy stock bottom end on a 4.6 stang GT with a good tune. I have also seen it myself. I am not a big gambler, I go out and assess the situation like everyone else and build my plan of action from there. I am too cheap to take chances. The 4.6's arent super strong, but they arent paper machette either. Saying that 9 psi will not work and making it sound as if your engine will only last a week is absurd. It seems like when people dont understand things they tend to error on the side of extreme caution. Which may be fine, but still not accurate. Just like when I mention nitrous. People freak! They always come out with the BS blanket statements of, "That will break all sorts of things." , "That will burn your pistons right up!" , "You cannot run nitrous on a stock engine!". Due to ignorance people come up with alot of hilarious assumptions that are usually only solidified by some dumb backyard mechanic trying to make it sound like they know what they are talking about to make a sale on something else. I see alot of mechanics and so-called (self acclaimed) PRO engine/tranny/fabricators/dealers and builders that dont know their azzes from a hole in the ground. They are so caught up in their own BS credentials that they blind themselves from understanding the real situation. Go to most any PRO exhaust shop and tell them that you want a true dual exhaust on your 4.6 new gen explorer and they will most likely laugh. "It cannot be done." "It is too tight a fit around the rear drivers axle, it will melt the rubber boot." Blah blah blah... All assumptions. Heck even Kenne Bell does this. Keep in mind that while Kenne Bell the company itself sucks azz, their product offered is all but untouchable, trust me on this one. I corresponded with them on the fitment of their chargers designed for the mustang GT. As we all know or are shortly about to find out, the KB's can fit onto the explorers with VERY little modification. I stated that to KB and their "technician" was dumbfounded. I then went one further and told the guy that KB used to offer a kit for the 4.6 explorer at one time. The guy didnt know anything about it, but he was a pro... My guess is he was some lowly sales person that doesnt know tech to save his skinny butt. My point is that alot of people assume they are experts when they really dont know squat and are just making assumptions based off of hearsay or plain ignorance. Most people who dont know what they are talking about error on the side of caution. It is a dead giveaway when you see people asking certain questions. My point is that people take for gospel what others say. And if they get scared by others like yourself who tell them they will blow their engines at 9 psi boost then they will error on the side of caution. In this instance you win the debate, but not because your right or wrong, only because the unknowledgeable people on this site will follow the safer bet because they are afraid to do anything else. A majority of people on this site would be good to follow your statements. The reason they should follow them is not because it is accurate, it is because if they dont have enough knowledge to know the capabilities of what they are modding and thus should leave it to the professionals and not go near any limits. AWDROCKS this is in no way meant to be a personal attack on you or anyone else on this board. I am just tired of people assuming things with little to no true understanding to why things work, and then before we know it we got tons of people misinformed. I respectfully and totally disagree with your point on the 4.6 not being able to handle 9 psi on the stock bottom end with the proper tune. I will prove my case in point yet again in 8 months or less with my own truck. I truly understand what Dan Rotolante told me about why he and his brother dont like to give much advice here anymore. No matter what information is put out, no one really listens, they still will go about things the wrong way and continue to proliferate bad information due to their preconceived hairbrain notions. See you all later. Good luck in any endeavors everyone! Im out.....

 

[awdrocks]

Well im glad YOU didnt take anything personal. And I feel im big enouph to over look ALOT of your bashing towards my peebrain and all the profesionals who have advised. Ill refrain form any comments. Yes im sure AED and many skilled technitions ive spoken to are just bunch of idiots who are in the business just because they like eating vanilla ice cream and dont know dog dittle. If I was ignorant I would not mess with a blower period.

Well better said is that you CAN run 6 9 or 15psi for that matter... just remember you hypeuretic pistons... thats all.

Oh and by the way... I will be adding plenty of nitrous in the not so far future. Im no where NEAR a old wives tail beleiver in anything... I do my research and make the smartest desitions I feel confortable and safe with. Its not like im telling people to put 30psi on a stock block, im just looking after and sharing my research with our fellow mates and they ARE intelligent enouph to draw their own conclutions.

EDIT: Good luck!!!

 

[awdrocks]

 

[Sams01XplrSprt]

awd do you got pics of ur ride I would love to see how it looks.

and how is the supercharger on ur ride. Cause I am thinking of putting an supercharger on my 01 Sport.

 

[awdrocks]

I sure do. what email do you want me to send them to?

The supercharger is great. Very responsive at low end. Definetly worth getting!!! All though its a whole different system for you im sure theres something out there.

I just got my block two days ago from getting bored .020 over. It should be about another two weeks untill shes done. Cant wait...

 

[Explorer46L]

Hello everyone,

I would like to start a thread for modified 3rd Gen Explores. I have looked everywhere and have not found one specifically on this subject. I hope im not alone on this one.

I have a 2002 Eddie and these are my mods:
custom cold air intake
JBA headers
no cats
Borla cat back
bored block .020 over
JE 9.3 CR forged pistons
Eagle H-Beam rods
AED roots ported M90 9psi supercharger
stock limited slip diffs with 3.73's
SCT flash
30lbs injectors
70mm throttle body
Eibach springs
Monro gas adjust shocks

I just got my FMS (AKA Ground Force) springs in and am having them installed on Tuesday. I noticed that you have Eibach springs and Monroe shocks. Do you think the shocks really help?

 

[BeauJ]

I called Hughes Performance and they have heavy duty 4R70W trannys. He said they have seen a 10sec (2nd gen) explorer awd with the stock tranfer case holding up. Interesting.

EDIT: took out nonsence

I've had maybe 300+ RWHP for the past 6 months in my AWD, and my TC started acting funny. Noise, weird shifting. They MAY handle that much but for how long.

I took my front driveshaft off and unlike others have said before, I AM quicker off the line. Maybe because I'm S/C, I don't know. It also steers like a car now.

 

[awdrocks]

I've had maybe 300+ RWHP for the past 6 months in my AWD, and my TC started acting funny. Noise, weird shifting. They MAY handle that much but for how long.

I took my front driveshaft off and unlike others have said before, I AM quicker off the line. Maybe because I'm S/C, I don't know. It also steers like a car now.

Does your AWD lock the front and rear diffs? Or does it tranfer power back and forth depending on wheel spin?

 

[WannaBeRobb]

He has AWD (all wheel drive), which means both front and rear shafts get torque all the time.

Which is ironic that your name is "awdrocks" when you don't have awd.

 

[awdrocks]

He has AWD (all wheel drive), which means both front and rear shafts get torque all the time.

Which is ironic that your name is "awdrocks" when you don't have awd.

hehe funny post.. I do have AWD, for your info the 3rd generation AWD has three settings. AWD Auto, AWD High and AWD Low.... AWD Auto tranfers the power to front and rear depending on your wheel spin (traction control), AWD High LOCKS the two diffs together PERMANTLY no matter what.

The reason I ask you this Beauj is becasue im wondering if the 2nd gen AWD locks the diffs like my AWD High or if it works like my AWD Auto, tranfering only when needed. If your system works like my AWD Auto then your T-case is going to receive quite a bit of strain due to the tranfering of power back and forth. If your system locks the diffs, and your still having T-case problems than that really puts up a red flag for me.... I was going to use AWD High for the launches to let the diffs lock and "maybe" be easier on the T-case.

Either way, im going to add a relay switch to be able to turn off my AWD and stay in 2wd incase I need to.