4.0 to Aod adapter from AA

[slovic]

I thought I would start a new thread, my previous thread was getting long. It was a great thread with alot of good suggestions and info. Thank you all for your input.
Well it is obvious the AOD/AODE is the choice based on your opinions. We have decided to start R&D on an adapter to mate the 4.0 block to the AOD. I want to speed up our R&D, I could use some more help to speed this along. Here is a concern, The AOD was only used with the larger 164 tooth flexplate. This means the bellhousing portion of the trans is quite larger than the a4ld. My question is: What is the clearance like in your tunnel area now with the a4ld? If minimal, we could have a body lift issue here. thanks for any input and feel free to call, ext 530
p.s. this posting is starting to get commercial, I hate when companies try to pimp their goods on posting boards. I hope you all see an exemption here. Any way you look at it, YOU ARE SCRE***(I had to edit this, my opinions of the a4ld are not going over well with some of the auto industry

 

[SteveVB]

Im looking forward to see what is developed.

If we could get a pic of the late model firewall, and an early model fire wall to compare it should give us some answers. The late models came with the AOD(4r70w is same correct?) and the v-8 so if the body is the same early/late then shouldnt be a problem, but a few pics may help.
Anyone going to any junk yards where they may be able to snap a pic of the firewall areas with the engines removed?

Just for general information what is required to adapt an auto to another engine. An adapter would consist of an adapter plate that bolts to the block and bell housing? How about the converter- custom? Spacers? special flex plate?

 

[Mike 92 XLT]

Steve makes a great point. I think the overall chassis/structure was essentially unchanged from 91-01 (with the exception of the front suspension design which changed in 95), the only changes were cosmetic in the body panels. That being the case, and if the 4r70w is just an updated AOD, then clearance should not be a problem. Maybe they made some changes to the firewall though. I don't know. Another option is that there are a few people here who have done the 5.0/AOD swap to the early models. I think a lot of them have done body lifts, but hopefully they will offer some input as to what they found out in terms of clearance issues and how they got around them.

Oh, and don't worry about these postings being too "commercial." Believe me when I say that every single Explorer owner here hates that POS that Ford decided to pass off as a transmission. We'll do whatever we can to help you out!

Mike

 

[mrboyle]

If all else fails a little work will do the trick!

 

[Savage Wolf]

the body lift in most of the gen one swaps are done for the heater/ac box clearence for the v8 5.0 valve cover and intakes, seeing I have my A4LD out, and 4R70W (v8 explorer tranny) in the mail I'll check the sizes and post the diffrences if it will help

 

[Kris Guilbeaux]

Slovic,

I have salvage yard I can Measure and take photos of any year or Years of Explorers you need. 91-2001 v-6s and V-8s not a problem. I also have three Explorers in the Garage two autos and one manual 2wd and 4x4. I also have all the info you would ever need to know about the difference in a 2wd and a 4x4. Tell me what info you need and I will provide Photos and Measurements. These adapters is some thing every one wants and would love to help make this happen.

 

[Mike 92 XLT]

ttt

 

[brianb9]

Tranny Adaptor Development

Hey Vic,

Just wanted to let you know there is also alot of interest in a manual tranny also. You and Scott helped me piece together the parts to put the T-5 World class in my Explorer. It all bolted in with parts you already stock.

The only mod I made was to fabricate an aluminum mounting plate to change the position of mounting bosses for the manual transfer case shift linkage. If people keep their electronic shift there are no mods at all, it just bolts in.

I constantly answer questions about how I did it and where I purchased the parts. I refer everyone to AA so this seems like a kit that would be easy to offer right now. If you need dimensions and mounting points for my linkage adaptor I can give them to you as it is relatively simple.

Thanks Again for a great upgrade in my tranny. It's been problem free for almost 17,000 miles now.

Brian

 

[slovic]

brian, I'm glad the wc t5 conversion worked well for you; unfortunately, the 4wd version of this transmission are no longer available for AA to purchase. we still offer kits for converting a mustang wc t-5 version to t-case, but this is quite costly due to the 5th gear replacement and shifter assembly location in the tailhousing, let alone a new output shaft install. another problem with the mustang wc t5 is the 1st gear ratio variations. most were in the 2-3 range, not great for crawling

 

[PekingMan]

Slovic,
Is there some kind of time frame that we should be looking at for this? How long does the R&D normally take and for production to start? I have a 139K on my orignal A4LD and I'm babying to make it last until this is completed.

 

[Diff Whack Daddy]

Woaw, I think this is awesome. I don't know much about the AOD/AODE, but is there a difference between the two, can they be run with a muanual valve body, and what are the specs on them as far as gear ratios. I have been unable to log on for the las three weeks and am really glas to see things happening.

 

[Diff Whack Daddy]

Here's a couple more questions that you can help me with. What type of bolt pattern does the 4x4 extension housing of the AOD have? In other words, is it the same goofy 5 bolt that we currently have or would it be possible to bolt up an NP205 with the standard 6 bolt circle?

 

[Brett]

slovic,

Here's a couple of questions for you.... In all of your R&D efforts involving this conversion, have you considered what is going to be required for the AOD TV cable? As you probably know, the TV cable for the AOD and the kick down cable for the A4LD operate very differently. In fact, from experience, I know that the kick down cable from the A4LD will not work for the AOD. I probably don't need to go into details for you, but the AOD TV cable requires adjustment to produce somewhere in the neighborhood of 28-32 lbs of pressure - as measured by a guage. (The correct way to adjust the TV cable)

Also, when replacing the A4LD (computer controlled lockup) with and AOD (Non-computer controlled) you will run into specific wiring issues. Something more than just hacking off the 2 wires controlling the torque converter lockup. Not to mention, you will generate codes, i.e. check engine light, unless the Automatic computer is swapped out for the 5 speed computer. Once again, I am speaking from experience.

Finally, the electric shift transfer cases requires a neutral / park imput signal from the transmission in order to shift into low range. This is the reason for the red/white wire in the tranny harness. All that requires of this is the 5 pin switch from the 4wd AOD's found in Bronco's / F150's and the like...

These are just my thoughts since I have not seen this discussed anywhere.

Thanks,

Brett

 

[slovic]

Hi guys, I decided to drive south to check out support mounts for you guys today. when I look back at this event, I laugh, but it truely did suck. I hope you enjoy my agony. this is the email I sent my sister:>

Hi Sis, (I'll send you the newspaper article on this, if it makes the paper. I'm sure it will.)
Well, let me tell you what happened to me today. I was
driving south on hwy 101 near Santa Barbara to check out some explorers. There was a major accident just minutes before I reached the scene. I must have just missed the accident as I arrived before the CHP. Luckily, nobody was injured,but a semi truck flipped over spilling its' contents. Now, if the truck was hauling lemons, avacadoes or some other type of local produce, It wouldn't have been that bad. but no! This tractor
trailer was hauling old stinky decomposing fish guts from a coastal fish processing plant to a landfill. Yuck! It
was so bad the health department was called in

So with that in mind, I never made it there. I need photos of stock support mount (a4ld) and its location in the explorer. also, Rick is sending me the stock manifolds and starter off his 4.0. Can anybody confirm that manifolds and starter are the same on all 4.0 explorers? Thanks for your support
vic@advanceadapters.com
p.s. I started this seperate thread to focus on the a4ld conversion, but don't worry, I won't forget you manual guys

***we are also looking for an individual or two who are willing to it install the first protypes of this adapter, please contact me if you are interested. the tcase adapter is all ready completed, we just need to finalize the 4.0 to tranny adapter

 

[Kris Guilbeaux]

I just started pulling my A4LD today. I will take pictures tomorrow.

 

[Brett]

Originally posted by slovic


***we are also looking for an individual or two who are willing to it install the first protypes of this adapter, please contact me if you are interested. the tcase adapter is all ready completed, we just need to finalize the 4.0 to tranny adapter

The tcase adapter is a no brainer! You already make one. The bellhousing is probalby not too difficult seeing that Ford already did most of the work for you with the C5. You just have to figure out how to machine the AOD case and bolt it up. I'm currious to know what you plan to do with the electronics and tv cable? How about a bracket for the shifter linkage? What about the indicator on the dash? I honestly feel that you are overlooking these important areas. Yes, they may seem small, but are critical to the sucess of your project.

Yes I have been very disappointed with AA products in the past. I would hate to see someone put down several hundred dollars only to find out that is is more costly and more custom than they bargined for. I would be interested in a prototype, but fear that you are far from releasing a product to market.

Please feel free to contact me with any questions or concerns. I look forward to hearing from you.

Brett

 

[asp84]

Just to clarify things............talking from experience. My 1991 Ford Explorer was once powered by a 4.0L V6 and A4LD automatic transmission. I now have installed a 5.0L V8 and AOD (Ford's Automatic Overdrive Transmission.) I have an Advanced Adapter that mates it my original BW 1354 Transfer Case.

FYI:
1.) AOD: Shifts are mechanically controlled. Torque Converter is controlled by a one piece input shaft that locks torque converter. Torque Converter does NOT have a clutch in the Converter
-First Gear: Torque converter is not locked up
-Second Gear: Torque Converter is NOT locked up
-Third gear: Torque Converter locked up (60-100%)
-Overdrive Band: Torque Converter Locked up.

2.) AOD-E; same gearing as AOD, except computer controlled. longer than AOD, Clutch in Torque Converter
-First Gear: Unlocked TC
-Secon gear: Unlocked
-Third gear: Unlocked
-OD band: TC Unlocked (Tow on)
-OD: Torque Coverter locked (Tow off)

3. 4R70W : Same thing as an AOD-E (computer controlled, looks just like an AOD) Has a Wide Ratio Gear Set.
-First Gear: Unlocked
-Second Gear: Unlocked
-Third gear: Unlocked
-Third Gear: Locked (Cmptr controlled
-Forth Gear: Unlocked (Tow on)
-Fourth gear: (Tow off)

A4LD Transmission: used in Rangers/Explorers
-First gear: Unlocked
-Second Gear: Unlocked
-Third Gear: Unlocked
-Overdrive Band: TC Unlocked (in "D" position)
-Overdrive Band: TC Locked in "OD"
-----------------------------------------------------------
What I am saying is, I do not reccomend mating a Mechanically controlled AOD to a 4.0L v6. Why may you ask. Think about if your driving around in the city. (meaning you wont be going in to Overdrive) This means you will ONLY HAVE TWO GEARS that the torque converter is unlocked. Once you hit third, your LOCKED, which means the torque Multiplying effect is absent.

I have a stock 5.0L V8 mated to my AOD. Personally, I hate when I hit third gear, especially for city driving. The only exception to this is if you have a Wide Ratio gear set installed in your mechanically controlled AOD.

If an adapter was to become availabe, I think a lot of people would be let down after the installation of an AOD (mech version) I would only reccomend the install of an 4R70W (wide ratio geared) (fits the same as an AOD and AOD-E) behind their 4.0L V6.

Now lets talk about costs:
4R70W / AOD-E: $1000
TCS Electronic transmission controller: $400
Advanced Adapter: $500
AOD-E to BW 2354 $600
these are all estimates.

My final point: Installing a mechanically controlled AOD will not solve your problems. It will also handle completely different than your A4LD.

OK, now, I am open to criticism (sp)

Al

 

[410Fortune]

Thats good information. The AOD would not be a good suit behind the OHV 4.0L.

There is nothing wrong with the A4LD, I may be the one Ford truck owner who actually likes this transmission. In stock form it is decent, when built properly and maintained properly it kicks ass.

Now the WCT-5 is the way to go for the manual guys.

There are other transmissions available that would be better suited behind a OHV 4.0L, the 700R4 for example.....

I am planning to make my own torque converter lock up switch, so I can lock up my computer controlled converter at will......

 

[SteveVB]

I want to like it...

410 I like it also, but it seems that lonce they hit the repair shop you cant keep them together.. I had one rebuilt at what I thought was a great shop, by a guy with tons of experience and after 10k miles I have the notorious front seal leak. The stock trans seem to be ok, and last 120-150k miles, but once someone opens the case forget it. Most of the problems Ive read about on these forums result from heat generated by a trans that probably should have had repairs X-k miles ago and just burned itself taking drums,planets, and other expensive hard parts with it.
I dont know if the A4LD is that much different from other autos, but the techs are missing something. Most just write it off as a crappy transmission, may be a crappy design that cant be rebuilt by the average trans tech. Judging the posts on this forum it is the rebuilders who are missing something. Too many problems after a rebuild to be the transmission, technique seems more likely. The machined housing bushing seems to be a problem with the seals, and why everyone skips it, or overllooks it I dont know- well I do- money no one wants to spend it.

Back to the 4R70w conversion- any time frame Slovic?

 

[Jason_25]

I would pay 2500 bucks for this conversion. That's not alot more than a rebuild would cost, and I bet some have payed even more for a new replacement tranny. I agree the AOD isn't a good alternative, but if they can get the electronics worked out for the 4R70W, that would be great! It's gear ratios are excellent.