4wd is driving me crazy front axle misery...HELP!

[92xltcobrastatus]

So ive tested every electrical part of my 4wd and the shafts spin with the tc motor on however i installed new hubs figuring that was the problem and NO GO...NO FRONT MOVEMENT...The spindle or whatever (the very center shaft) the hub sits on spins on both sides but noticed you can stop the shaft from spinning BY HAND!!! i know thats not right cuz the xlt i was taking parts off worked for sure and the shaft is stiff...so i guess i need a whole new axle? anyone done it? what exact part is responsible for the strenth of the shaft its just barely working obviously since it spins (the shaft and spindle) but not the wheel or hub....any suggestions is there an easy way to swap the whole exle over or is it more efficient to take the axle apart and fix whatever is broken...id be taking it off a 91xlt (mines 92') and need 4wd finally for winter and dont have a garage...i can buy the axle for 100 bucks and the owner will help me swap it...whats up gurus I NEED YA?!?

 

[MrShorty]

"New" auto hubs or "used" auto hubs or manual hubs?

Have you reviewed the "4x4 troubleshooting" thread and gone through the steps for testing the hubs? What exactly was happening when you stopped the axleshaft by hand? I'm not all that surprised that you can stop one axleshaft by hand, because you have an open diff in the front and, as long as the other axleshaft can spin, it wouldn't be all that difficult to stop one axleshaft. When you stopped the axleshaft, did the driveshaft stop with it? The other axleshaft?

The key to knowing what best to do next is to obtain and communicate some good diagnostics.

 

[92xltcobrastatus]

they were known good used auto hubs and the front driveshaft did NOT stop with it...with the hubs off you can spin my spindle or whatever its called the very center shaft that sits in the hub but you cant physically move the other vehicles spindle...

 

[MrShorty]

Start with terminology to help clean up the conversation:

Spindle is the hollow, stationary part that is bolted to the knuckle and on which the wheel bearings ride.

The splined "center shaft" would be the outer end of the axleshaft that protrudes through the spindle.

the front driveshaft did NOT stop with it

what about the other axleshaft? Where it's an open diff, we have to account for all three. Same thing applies when we're comparing to the donor vehicle: we have to know what all three shafts are doing.

with the hubs off you can spin my spindle or whatever its called the very center shaft that sits in the hub

With both hubs off, or the t-case in 2H, this isn't surprising. It's an open diff. With an open diff, any one shaft can be held stationary while the other two are free to rotate. If any one shaft can rotate while both of the other two are held stationary, then something is broken inside the diff.

Where the driveshaft is turning, it appears that the transfer case is working (it seems this was pretty evident from your original post).

If the axleshafts or driveshaft were broken, that would normally be immediately apparent.

By trying to pin down what all three shafts are doing, I'm trying to pin down what the diff is doing. I doubt the diff is the problem, as the D35 is a pretty stout unit, especially on a stock truck. The main reason for swapping the entire axle from the donor would be if something is broken in the diff.

Finally, the hubs, which are a common problem point on these. When you replaced the hubs, did you transfer over the "internal" parts (the ones that rest on the spindle/wheel bearing nut)? As recommended in the 4wd troubleshooting thread, with the hubs installed, do they lock when you rotate the axleshafts?

 

[92xltcobrastatus]

okay...the donor vehicles splined shafts that sit in the middle of the hubs do not move for sure the passangers side since i checked it personally but i belivieve the drivers side tire was on the ground...the drivers side splined shaft on mine moved freely and immediately the wierdo i was working with said that wasnt right since hes 50 and i'm 26 he assumed i couldnt figure anything out so he held the hub to the both the drivers side and passanger side one at a time while i turned on the 4wd..each one separately would not lock in the whole hub didnt rotate it stayed stationary and i did NOT swap the internal parts from the donor vehicle..he knows the hubs are good but now that you mention it the internals are obviosly a good idea if you think its normal to be able to stop the splined shaft by hand.........
If any one shaft can rotate while both of the other two are held stationary, then something is broken inside the diff.
come to think of it when installing the hubs they didnt have much "spring" to them like they did sitting on the donor vehicle....but what are the odds of both internals going bad and neither working? would they go out at the same time due to stress or wear? I'm going to dig around on the site a bit more but youre definately steering me in the right direction...how difficult is it to swap the "internals" on these? ALSO MINE IS 5 SPEED MANUAL DONOR IS AUTOMATIC IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE? I'M GONNA NEED TO TROUBLESHOOT THIS ON MY OWN WITHOUT ANY NEGATIVE INFLUENCE SO WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST...ITS ABOUT TO SNOW

 

[MrShorty]

how difficult is it to swap the "internals" on these?

Not hard. Search for Glacier991's "1st gen front brake job diary" where he shows step by step how to take the rotor off. Of course, that's a bit deeper in the front end than you need, but the information is there for taking the auto hubs off and putting them on.

Manual or auto tranny doesn't matter: the hubs are still the same.

 

[Skydiver]

If I'm not mistaken, someone correct me if I'm wrong....

You need to have one or both wheels on the ground to check the auto-locking hub function. Though, it doesn't matter if they are manual hubs.

 

[92xltcobrastatus]

why do they need to be on the ground? crap its really cold here now in wisconsin and gonna snow real soon i didnt swap the internals and really need to get this working but dont have a garage so need to be precise with every test i do....

 

[Skydiver]

why do they need to be on the ground? crap its really cold here now in wisconsin and gonna snow real soon i didnt swap the internals and really need to get this working but dont have a garage so need to be precise with every test i do....

I took a look around and now I'm 100% sure you need to have the front tires on the ground. Here is why...

The easiest way to test hubs is while the vehicle is still on the ground:

To test for a blown Auto Hub;
1) Put T-case in 4x2 (disengage 4x4)
2) Crawl under the truck and rotate the axle shaft (any direction). After several revolutions the auto hub should click and lock. If you can still rotate the axle shaft the hub is blown.
3) Repeat #2 on the opposite axle shaft...


Here is a great post for you to read .......
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202166&highlight=hub+test

 

[92xltcobrastatus]

okay great i read the post and did what you said and now with the swapped autohubs IT LOCKS when i rotatate it so i'm assuming its working since with the old hubs it just kept spinning...stupid question time...its not slippery and i dont know of any good hills how can i test that the front whells are in fact powered? jack up the rearend a little and drive forward just a tad? theres gotta be something better or creative than that any ideas guys?

 

[Skydiver]

A good sized tree and some mud or wet soil. Pull up to tree, put the case into 4Lo and push into it and see if they spin. I wouldn't power into it too much if the tires are getting too much traction.

If the hubs are going to slip , they will slip there.

 

[92xltcobrastatus]

thanks a lot i'll try it and post my results but i'm worried it will tear my clutch up and my neighbors will think i'm crazy lol thanks though i'll get back with results in the next couple days