4x4 Issues - 94 explorer EB Manual Hubs

[leefhead]

I got a 94 explorer eb about 6 months ago, and i love it, but when i got it the guy said the passenger side manual locking hub was finished so i couldn't use 4x4 till i got it changed. i took his word for it. the other day i got around to changing it, and its still not working... the 4x4 seems to be working if im going straight forward and reverse, but makes a nasty grinding noise when im turning , mostly when i turn sharply. What could this be? When i push the button on the inside the light does turn on, both on the switch and under the gauge cluster.



::edit:: i do hear a clicking when i press the button.

 

[IZwack]

Whats that grinding you hear? Thats the 4x4 working. You're not supposed to use 4x4 when you're on dry pavement/surfaces as turning would pretty strain the transfer case towards destruction.

 

[leefhead]

i'm testing it on gravel, i just want it working before i really need it.

 

[IZwack]

Its working so there's really nothing to worry about.

 

[leefhead]

so these noises im hearing is normal? its REALLY loud....

 

[IZwack]

The grinding noise is the transfer case's chain being stretched towards the point of breaking, two tires skipping due to the bind from the other two, and other drivetrain components being strained -- so try not engaging 4wd on any dry surface.

 

[leefhead]

allrighty, well, ill take your word for it, wait till enough snow drops then ill put it in 4x4 and try er out again.

 

[glfredrick]

I'd be checking the front axle shaft u-joints if it was making noise like that.

I'd also be checking the axle bearing that rides inside the rear of the spindle... I've seen a lot of those that are GONE. You have to pull the spindle to check both -- not a big deal and easy to do at home with basic hand tools. Do a search here on the board -- lots of posts that detail the entire process.

 

[leefhead]

i pulled apart my left hub the other day,it seams to be fine, ill check out my right hub today i think. thanks for the advise.

 

[glfredrick]

i pulled apart my left hub the other day,it seams to be fine, ill check out my right hub today i think. thanks for the advise.

Your problems are deeper in than the hubs... You also will need to pull the spindles. There is nothing in the hubs that can cause 4x4 to "grind."

Here is an exploded drawing of your front axle setup.

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/diagrams/d28.gif

The parts you need to check are # 50 (spindle bearing) and the u-joint on # 35. Both of these could cause grinding.

 

[leefhead]

havent gotten a chance to check those 2 items, but i did get to try out the 4x4 on snow/ice today...and it is still happening. also there is a whistling coming out of one of the hubs. could this be from not having enough grease? if so, does it matter what kind i use, or can i just use some regular barring grease.

when i turn with the 4x4 on, its not really a grinding noise, its more of a jerking...hard to explain. maybe ill take a video. would probably be pretty hard to hear it though, my exhaust is loud.

 

[glfredrick]

Don't "grease" the hubs -- that is the #1 cause of failure. If anything, give them a bit of light oil (not WD40!). 3-in-1 oil or other light oil works best. Hubs packed with grease, especially automatic ones, will not work -- especially when cold. If yours are packed with grease, get some mineral spirits and clean them out.

The jerking around of the front end is normal during 4x4 operation. You are putting power to the steering axle, which will definately feel different than driving without 4x4.

It also takes a somewhat different driving technique to maximize the effectiveness of 4x4 on snow and ice. Let the front end "pull" you around corners instead of trail-braking into corners. That will be a much more effective way to get where you are going.

I suggest finding an open parking area where you can practice the different handling of your vehicle with 4x4. What works with rear-wheel drive doesn't always with 4x4 and vice versa.

Again, any grinding is NOT coming from the hubs -- unless they are automatic hubs and just plain slipping. That will make sort of a grrrrrr... noise and cause the front wheel on that side to engage and disengage as the hub fails to lock to the axle.

The cure for bad auto hubs is to dump them for manual ones... Though manual hubs need to be locked in by hand before you encounter snow and ice, they stay locked in unless they blow up, unlike the auto hubs, which are prone to fail, especially if filled with grease.

In order to properly think of what the hubs do, think of a ratchet mechanism on a boat winch. If you have ever winched a power boat onto its trailer, the winch mechanism has a ratchet pawl that rides on a gear, where it engages to stop ratchet from going backwards as you crank. As you spin the crank, it goes "click, click, click..." That is exactly what is happening inside your auto hubs -- unless the "clicker" (pawl) is worn out, which may be the problem.

 

[north/west,ex]

I would also agree it's your axel ujoints and you can see and feel them without taking anything apart.just reach inside the steering knuckle and give em a wiggle , any movement between the inner and outer shafts they're done.the third joint you can see up near the diff on the passenger side ,same goes here any movement ,pull it.
The outers can be changed just by pulling the spindles but the inner you have to open the diff and remove the c clip or go to ford where I am told they have a gismo (press) to do it in the truck.
If you do pull the spindle do change the needle bearing and seals anyway .they are cheap and easy and after 23 years probably need a rest.

 

[leefhead]

Don't "grease" the hubs -- that is the #1 cause of failure. If anything, give them a bit of light oil (not WD40!). 3-in-1 oil or other light oil works best. Hubs packed with grease, especially automatic ones, will not work -- especially when cold. If yours are packed with grease, get some mineral spirits and clean them out.

The jerking around of the front end is normal during 4x4 operation. You are putting power to the steering axle, which will definitely feel different than driving without 4x4.

It also takes a somewhat different driving technique to maximize the effectiveness of 4x4 on snow and ice. Let the front end "pull" you around corners instead of trail-braking into corners. That will be a much more effective way to get where you are going.

I suggest finding an open parking area where you can practice the different handling of your vehicle with 4x4. What works with rear-wheel drive doesn't always with 4x4 and vice versa.

Again, any grinding is NOT coming from the hubs -- unless they are automatic hubs and just plain slipping. That will make sort of a grrrrrr... noise and cause the front wheel on that side to engage and disengage as the hub fails to lock to the axle.

The cure for bad auto hubs is to dump them for manual ones... Though manual hubs need to be locked in by hand before you encounter snow and ice, they stay locked in unless they blow up, unlike the auto hubs, which are prone to fail, especially if filled with grease.

In order to properly think of what the hubs do, think of a ratchet mechanism on a boat winch. If you have ever winched a power boat onto its trailer, the winch mechanism has a ratchet pawl that rides on a gear, where it engages to stop ratchet from going backwards as you crank. As you spin the crank, it goes "click, click, click..." That is exactly what is happening inside your auto hubs -- unless the "clicker" (pawl) is worn out, which may be the problem.

ive been driving a 4x4 for years, and ive never had this jerking. i know how to drive, 4x4 or not... they are manual hubs. also i meant to grease where the barings are, take the hub off, spin off the parts after that, then grease the barrings. im going to change my tire today, and test my ball joints and u joints as well, find out whats going on...

 

[DeRocha]

I would suspect worn U-joints, as your T-Case appears to shift into 4x4 correctly.

I would not suspect wheel Bearings as they would grind all the time, not just when 4x4 is engaged.

Since you have manual hubs you can eliminate them by engaging 4x4 without locking the hubs. If the noise still occurs without the hubs being locked then the problem is either the spindle bearing or U-joints. Since you indicate the noise increases dramatically as you turn it would eliminate the spindle bearing as the spindle bearing rotates the same regardless of steering input. That leaves the already suspected U-joints..

If you seldom use 4x4 the U-joints will remain in a set position but will still articulate with steering input. Over time the seals in the U-joint become brittle and will allow the lube inside to escape and water to enter. This will slowly rust/wear the needle bearings inside the U-joints. Now when you engage 4x4 the U-Joint will articulate into new positions and grind as the bearings that weren't in contact become in contact..

See the U-joint link in my sig for info on replacing U-joints..

 

[leefhead]

I would suspect worn U-joints, as your T-Case appears to shift into 4x4 correctly.

I would not suspect wheel Bearings as they would grind all the time, not just when 4x4 is engaged.

Since you have manual hubs you can eliminate them by engaging 4x4 without locking the hubs. If the noise still occurs without the hubs being locked then the problem is either the spindle bearing or U-joints. Since you indicate the noise increases dramatically as you turn it would eliminate the spindle bearing as the spindle bearing rotates the same regardless of steering input. That leaves the already suspected U-joints..

If you seldom use 4x4 the U-joints will remain in a set position but will still articulate with steering input. Over time the seals in the U-joint become brittle and will allow the lube inside to escape and water to enter. This will slowly rust/wear the needle bearings inside the U-joints. Now when you engage 4x4 the U-Joint will articulate into new positions and grind as the bearings that weren't in contact become in contact..

See the U-joint link in my sig for info on replacing U-joints..

thanks a lot, i was suspecting it to be the ujoints as well. also, no, the noise is not made when the hubs are not locked and 4x4 engaged. as i was replacing my drivers side tire today i saw a shaft with a ujoint right infront of me, im guessing its for my steering. i wiggled it back and forth, there is a little bit of play, not much though. maybe a 1/32nd of an inch play... is this ok or should it be changed as well?

 

[DeRocha]

thanks a lot, i was suspecting it to be the ujoints as well. also, no, the noise is not made when the hubs are not locked and 4x4 engaged. as i was replacing my drivers side tire today i saw a shaft with a ujoint right infront of me, im guessing its for my steering. i wiggled it back and forth, there is a little bit of play, not much though. maybe a 1/32nd of an inch play... is this ok or should it be changed as well?

you are definitely confusing me.. You indicate the noise is not made when the hubs are unlocked and 4x4 is engaged.. As I mentioned if the noise still occurs the problem is not the hubs, but if the noise STOPS the hubs must be the problem as they are the only components that you've eliminated/changed during the test. Please re-read the info and see if it makes sense..

U-Joints are connected the the axles and drive shafts. As for steering the outer tie rods contain a tapered Ball joint fitting.. 1/32 doesn't seem that bad.. If you need to replace the outer tie rods it is best to do both at the same time.. After you replace them you will need to get an alignment as the toe will be off..

 

[north/west,ex]

There should be no side movement in a ujoint. slide underneath and check the passenger side for play as well.
Bad knuckle ujoints will not allways grind when the hubs are unlocked and 4x4 engaged ,or hubs locked in 2wd because there is not as much strain on the joints unless fully engaged while turning.You will see all of the joints from underneath without taking anything off ,5 minutes max.

 

[leefhead]

i took a video so you could hear the noises coming from the front end. ignore the loud exhaust, lol.

http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/...r/Explorer/?action=view&current=DSCI02572.flv

0:00 - 0:40 hubs off, button on
1:00 - 1:50 hubs on, button on
2:00 - end hubs off, button off

if it is a ujoint, and im using the 4x4 cause im in a bad situation, and it goes, can i still put the truck back into 2 wheel drive and keep going?

 

[north/west,ex]

Yes,with the hubs unlocked and the tranfercase in 2wd the front drive shaft and axels don't turn.