5.0 Explorer Motor w/ Kenne Bell?

[NJAZ4.0XL]

Any of you guys with a 5.0 in your Ex added a KB? Was wondering as I haven't installed the KB I have for my Mustang yet and we may pick up another explorer (w/ a 5.0).

Thanks,
Jason

 

[jcar302]

What year mustang? Don't put the kb on it, putt it on your soon to be x, i have an x-charger on my 5.0 explorer, which is similar to the kb, but i think yours makes more power.
If you put it on your mustang and you drive hard you will toast head gaskets. Your probably less likely to beat the hell out of your explorer. What's done to your stang?

 

[SaleenEXP]

Originally posted by jcar302
What year mustang? Don't put the kb on it, putt it on your soon to be x, i have an x-charger on my 5.0 explorer, which is similar to the kb, but i think yours makes more power.
If you put it on your mustang and you drive hard you will toast head gaskets. Your probably less likely to beat the hell out of your explorer. What's done to your stang?

Kennebell chargers are nothing like your x-charger, Kennebell's are twin-screw (Lysholm) design's. They are extremely efficient compared to a roots (your x-charger)or centrifugal and also produce way less heat. You also have full boost at basically any rpm level with a Kenne Bell or any twin-screw (like Whipple). You won't toast the stock Stang gaskets either.

Thats why twin-screws make a crapload more power for example at 10lbs compared to 10lbs on a roots or centrifugal and basically at any rpm, you also have a very sick and flat torque curve with a twin-screw design.

The problem you'll have with the Kenne Bell or any Mustang supercharger that your trying to put on an X is that it won't work without modifications. The main problem being that the front accessories area on an Explorer is not the same as a 5.0 Stang and you won't be able to align the belts or charger correctly and it won't bolt right up like it would to a Stang. You have a 5.0 Stang and a 5.0 Explorer, just look at the engines and you'll see what I'm talking about , it may not look that different, but it's enough to make it a serious pain in the ass to align and bolt up correctly.

I'm 100% sure nobody on here has a KB charger on their 5.0 Ex, as they don't make one for 5.0 Explorers, they only make a twin-screw for 02'+ 4.6 Explorers/Mounty's.

 

[jcar302]

exp, i'm aware of the difference , just was'nt aware of the fitment problems. No one in the mustang world uses these chargers. Low end boost in a stang is useless, if you use 3.73 or 3.55 you'll never be in the low end, so who cares. You can say you'll be there in first gear, but you blow by the low rpm so quick, especially with a little tire spin. Vortech, pro charger and paxton own the market, with mustangs, and as far as blown head gaskets go, i would believe your wrong. Most of the shops by me won't even install them on your mustang, because they don't want you back complaning about head gaskets. And the shops i live by get alot of 5.0 and fastfords press.

 

[SaleenEXP]

Originally posted by jcar302
exp, i'm aware of the difference , just was'nt aware of the fitment problems.

Then why'd you say their similar lol, , just mesing with ya

Originally posted by jcar302
exp, i'm aware of the difference , just was'nt aware of the fitment problems. No one in the mustang world uses these chargers. Low end boost in a stang is useless, if you use 3.73 or 3.55 you'll never be in the low end, so who cares. You can say you'll be there in first gear, but you blow by the low rpm so quick, especially with a little tire spin. Vortech, pro charger and paxton own the market, with mustangs, and as far as blown head gaskets go, i would believe your wrong. Most of the shops by me won't even install them on your mustang, because they don't want you back complaning about head gaskets. And the shops i live by get alot of 5.0 and fastfords press.

Twin-screws are not low boost only chargers, the produce full boost from about 2000 rpm untill redline or wherever your shift points are at. You get the low rpm tq of a roots and high end power of a centrifugal in a twin-screw design.

I have seen a number of them at the tracks here, this has also been debated on the Stang boards. The main reason you won't see as many KB equiped Stangs is b/c of price involved, the charger itself is about a couple thousand more then the offerings from Paxton, Vortec ect., they also arent' as readily availble as the others.

But...theres a reason everyone basically wants one if they had the money, whats one thing in common with 03' Cobra owners? They want the KB twin-screw b/c of the massive power increase. What about 99-01 Cobras? Same thing, except Kenne Bell has it on hold right now. You just cannot beat the efficiency and reliability of the twin-screw, MM&FF has said that also plenty of times before, and they also say the samething about the KB being more expensive and thats why you don't see a lot of cars equiped so when you can have a centrifugal that will produce close to the same power on the top end. The 5.0 Stang Mag has had a couple write ups on the KB unit and are "infinitley impressed" by the power and flat tq band of the KB unit. Pete on the stang boards is producing about 900hp at the fly with his 03' Cobra running a Kenne Bell and other mods. Go look at the 03' March issue of 5.0 Stangs and see what just bolting on a KB did to an 03' Cobra, a centri or roots will not show the same results, and I think 5.0 and Super Fords had a write up on the unit a couple months ago, nothing but excellent things to say from each mag.

Kennebell also does not support the serious market, like below the 10 second range ect, as everyone has basically swapped their motors. Vortex, Paxton ect make chargers for aftermarket crate engines that can be adapted easily from swap to swap.

 

[tmsoko]

Originally posted by SaleenEXP
I'm 100% sure nobody on here has a KB charger on their 5.0 Ex, as they don't make one for 5.0 Explorers

100% my be a stretch - maybe something like 99.9%. Check out my picture pages and see the Kenne Bell 1.5L on my 1997 Explorer V8 in my 1999 Ranger. I am more than half way done with this Kenne Bell application. The only things remaining are having the drive extension cut down, the drive support bracket made, and my custom headers.

As I plan to have a dyno tune done immediately after the actual swap, I have the blower on hold until I get the headers made. The blower itself fits perfectly in the truck (would fit the same in an Ex). I need to move the throttle and hood release cable outboard 1" and adapt the drive extension, but those are really quite simple. The manifold clears the dash panel with ~1/2 - 3/4" spacing and the Explorer elbow fits on to align the TB as stock.

The rest of my combo will be: 306 rebuild shortblock with hypereutectic pistons, trick flow High Port (old street heat heads), GT40 lower, KB GT40 discharge, and standard inlet manifolds (flowzilla will NOT fit), Kennedy's blower cam, 70-75mm TB, OEM 90mm Ford Lightning MAF, 36lb FMS injectors and custom long tube headers. Final tuning will be done by Pete and Jerry at www.fordchip.com.

As for the KB blower itself, it really is quite a simple conversion.

 

[jssong]

if its a simple conversion.. can u do it for me ?

 

[SaleenEXP]

Originally posted by tmsoko
100% my be a stretch - maybe something like 99.9%. Check out my picture pages and see the Kenne Bell 1.5L on my 1997 Explorer V8 in my 1999 Ranger. I am more than half way done with this Kenne Bell application. The only things remaining are having the drive extension cut down, the drive support bracket made, and my custom headers.

As I plan to have a dyno tune done immediately after the actual swap, I have the blower on hold until I get the headers made. The blower itself fits perfectly in the truck (would fit the same in an Ex). I need to move the throttle and hood release cable outboard 1" and adapt the drive extension, but those are really quite simple. The manifold clears the dash panel with ~1/2 - 3/4" spacing and the Explorer elbow fits on to align the TB as stock.

The rest of my combo will be: 306 rebuild shortblock with hypereutectic pistons, trick flow High Port (old street heat heads), GT40 lower, KB GT40 discharge, and standard inlet manifolds (flowzilla will NOT fit), Kennedy's blower cam, 70-75mm TB, OEM 90mm Ford Lightning MAF, 36lb FMS injectors and custom long tube headers. Final tuning will be done by Pete and Jerry at www.fordchip.com.

As for the KB blower itself, it really is quite a simple conversion.

Well I meant KB doesn't produce one for the 5.0 Explorers, but yeh, 99.9% is more like it I actually remember checking out your page before also, nice job.

Your right though, basically the only problem with Stang chargers like I said, is the front accessory drives on the Explorer 5.0, brain-fart right now, can't remember if their longer or shorter then then accessory drives on a Stang .

I know one things for sure, the KB and your engine with those mods is gonna be a friggen tq monster I wonder why KB never produced one for 5.0 Explorers, but they had their unit for the 4.6 Explorer's/Mounty's almost ready by the time the 02' models came out.

 

[tmsoko]

Both the SN93 and SN95 mustang drive extensions are longer than that needed for the Explorer drive, which is good, as it gives you material to remove, which is much easier than extending it! From what I measured, I will need to remove ~7mm from the drive extension. I plan to order the extension in the next week or two and have it cut down by my machinist.

As for the torque monster - oh yeah baby! That is what i am shooting for. With the weight of my truck and the fact I tow and drive it daily that is what I wanted - why I am going through the effort to convert. I have not need for a high RPM HP monster. Just a good solid bottom end and a fat mid range. Now all I need to do is finish it!

I would say the reason KB has not done the explorer is the throttle cable issue (they would need to make a new manifold casting) and the "limited" explorer market. You have to admit, there are a whole lot more mustang guys willing to throw down $3500 for a blower than explorer guys.

As for the 4.6L expo kit, it is my guess that the 4.6L mustang kit bolted right in, with minimal mods, so they figured why not...

 

[jcar302]

exp,
The reason they replace new cobra and lightning superchargers with kennebells is so you don't have to add an actuall intake. Read a stang magazine, not 1 guy that has a kb is in contension in any class for anything. Cobras with vortechs murder new cobras with roots style chargers.
Price vortech or centrifical is 3500 or so, little more with a cooler.
What's a kb go for ????

Not to mention your talking dohc against a 5.0, totally different responses to boost

 

[tmsoko]

The Kenne Bell charger is a good conversion for the Cobra and Lightning, since it does not heat up the air charge as much as the roots Eaton compressor does. This relates -directly- to the ability to add more boost pressure prior to detonation, resulting in more HP with the same engine and fuel. The compressed air in a KB system is between 100 and 200 degrees cooler -without- an intercooler than a roots, at the same PSI.

As for the drag racing, only the 2.2L Kenne Bell compressor would have enough capacity to match a centrifugal type compressor. Plus, a Kenne Bell is not ideal for all out drag racing, as is has so much torque, so low in the rpm range, that with the boost needed for high h drag racing, the cars would have no traction. They would not only get that boost at and near readline, but also down at 1800-2000 RPM just after they launch!

I will be the first to admit it is much easier to get 600HP or more from a vortech or paxton centrifugal compressor, but try to drive one of those cars on the street for a few days and see how much fun it is. Then, drive a 500HP KB car and hope the guy you borrowed it from doesn't want it back

 

[hornz2000]

This should end any discussion about kenne bell not being superior....Check out these sick dyno #s with kenne bell twin-screw on a 03 cobra vs. the stock eaton. unbelievable..this guy should be making approximately 900rwhp when he is finished tuning. Kenne Bell Twin-Screw Dyno #s 03 Cobra

 

[jcar302]

tm, if you have a traction problem at the track, it will be ten times worse on the street. i'll take a vortech any day over a kb, most stang guys don't even consider a kb. Its not even on their maybe list. Now on an x when the lower rpm is a little more important that's a different story. Saleen also needs to keep in mind that the 5.0 does not react as well to a roots style that a dohc cam does, that's a proven fact.

Hornz, the argument is not about the cobra motor it's about a 5.0

 

[jcar302]

I want you guys to know, i am a mustang nut, and by no means am i putting down any type of mustang, i love them all. By the way did you guys know that they had to stop producing 03 cobras, because the motors couldn't handle the boost, stuff was breaking, i don't know what, but i'm sure if you surf the net you can find a few articles about it.

I have every 5.0 and fastford for the past 8 years, not that makes me an expert, nor do i believe everything magazines write. My buddy is the guy in this months Q and A session in 5.0mustang. Short black guy named Dwayne, his shop is around the block from my house. Maybe hes the one i get the anti KB attitude from. His 347 makes over 800 at the wheels and clears the quarter in 8.5 seconds. On drag radials.

 

[SaleenEXP]

Originally posted by jcar302
I want you guys to know, i am a mustang nut, and by no means am i putting down any type of mustang, i love them all. By the way did you guys know that they had to stop producing 03 cobras, because the motors couldn't handle the boost, stuff was breaking, i don't know what, but i'm sure if you surf the net you can find a few articles about it.

Not trying to offend you at all but thats the biggest BS I've heard, I'm not calling BS on you just wherever that info came from. The 03' Cobra motors/block is as bullet proof as as they come, and is basically the strogest block made today for a production car. One of my best friends is running 475rwhp scince about last summer which includes going to the track (Moroso) at least once a week or twice sometimes scince he got it, and not one single thing has gone wrong. Nightstalker on Stangnet is running 500rwhp with no problems, I can think of a lot more guys on the stang boards running a lot more power then 500rwhp with no probs and I have met a bunch of the guys on there at the tracks and can attest to how durable the 03' Cobras are. A few others have been "test dummies" for Kennebells twin-screw making over 600rwhp with no problems for the last 6 months which includes countless times at the strip.

And I actually had the same exact thing in one of my post above like TMSOKO said, however I edited it out b/c I thought you might not believe me or might call BS, but he's right, a highly modified 5.0 or even 4.6 with the KB charger takes an extremely skilled driver to drive b/c the massive tq at all rpms would give you serious traction problems, this was also quoted before in MM&FF and 5.0 Stangs, thats another reason you won't see a lot at the strip.

I was just trying to show that the KB is not worthless on a 5.0 Stang and would be awsome on an 5.0 Explorer b/c of the low end tq and high end hp. Just go onto the Stang boards and you'd be suprised at how many people are willing to give up their current setups to have a KB put on b/c you cannot beat the reliability and efficiency of a KB, I think Allen makes a twin-screw for 5.0 and 4.6 Stangs also if I remember, right?

 

[jcar302]

Look through motortrend or car and driver, and you'll find the article on the production of the 03 cobra being stopped, just like the first blown lightning they spent much time under warranty work. This is not my info. Most people with this much power run drag radials or full slicks at the track, don't you think if the kb was so great it would bring down times on these types of tires Why doesn't a single reputable racer or shop use them? They haven't heard of them? People stick with what works. Oh i do believe it works, i just don't think its great.

I didn't say the kb was useless on a stang, i said the low end power was. I agree it would be much more useful on an x. I don't believe the price is much more either.

Centrificals and turbos own the entire mustang market. The kb is way easier to install, you guys really haven't given me a good reason why it doesn't sell well. Price is not a good reason. Everyone is in search of the most power, if it is the best people would buy it. And as i stated before the twin screw is the choice on new cobras because it is not only the supercharger but the intake also. A good cobra intake for that car costs a bundle. And that's what you would need to go to a vortech. Ford left no choice other than the kb. You don't see people putting them on 02 cobras.

I'll try and find the 03 cobra production article.

Do any of you guys actually have a mustang??
Mine is a 1990 with 3.73's gt40x aluminum heads, an e can and a real gt40 intake so i'm no stranger to the track or cars that make power. 12.90 on 18's.
Ya, i'm not setting the world on fire, but some drag radials, and that should be about 12.50. Not bad for a car with a complete saleen suspension. Had it since 93.

 

[tmsoko]

Originally posted by jcar302
Do any of you guys actually have a mustang??
Mine is a 1990 with 3.73's gt40x aluminum heads, an e can and a real gt40 intake so i'm no stranger to the track or cars that make power. 12.90 on 18's.
Ya, i'm not setting the world on fire, but some drag radials, and that should be about 12.50. Not bad for a car with a complete saleen suspension. Had it since 93.

My brother had an old one (79), with a 410W running 13:1 compression pushing ~700HP N/A. Got too expensive, as at that level parts begin to break - even GOOD parts. So, now the engine sits in my garage until I get a FFR Cobra kit put together. He is enjoying my old 1966 Porsche 911 I traded him for the engine. Surpising - many people have/had mustangs and move away from them for something better...

 

[jcar302]

Isn't a factory five racing kit, just a mustang connected to a tube chassis? Better?

I'm a big fan of the ffr, their web site is awsome, I actually considered it, but they nickel and dime you for the little things, and when the price adds up, if can be alot of cash. What's the base kit these days? 10,000,?

 

[tmsoko]

$11,900 for the basic kit. I would have bought one already, but I am waffling a little bit after they decided not to offer the aluminum body option. They had been working on a deal to offer full aluminum body options, which were stamped by Kirkham ($60K kit). The option was going to be ~$5-6K, but they could not get it to that level and abandoned those plans. It would have really raised the kit to the next level. I do not plan to go there by buying a Kirkham though!

I plan to spend ~$16,000 for the kit and options from FFR, then add the engine (have), toploader 4-speed (have), 8.8 Torsen rear, custom interior, wheels, and paint. Won't be cheap, but it will be one hell of a fun ride though. (And faster than most anything on the road)

 

[jcar302]

Make sure to opt for the 17 in sunburst wheels, they keep the old school look with a modern edge. They look good with the cobra r's but it makes it too obvious it's a replica, even though there is slim possiblility it's not.
I was going to take the tour of the plant but i never made it.