5.0 L coolant leak, water pump or timing cover?

[JohnsIsland]

Thanks in advance to anyone who can give me a clue to the source of a coolant leak!

I have a 96 (97) Mounty, 5.0, AWD with 184,000 miles. I have replaced most of the hoses and radiator in the last year. Friday, I noticed it had lost quite a bit of coolant. Engine off, jacked up the front end, added water and found a steady stream of water dripping off a large bolt next to the lower belt pulley on the driver side. I don't see any puddles above the bolt. Hoses above the belt appear to be dry.

After reading several threads, I tend to think it's a timing cover due to the lack of puddles anywhere above the bolt, but it very well could be water pump. I can't see the water pump weep hole.

I borrowed a tool from O'Reilly's, Evertough 67063. The 36 mm is a bit loose and I don't see any way to hold the pulley from turning, while I wack it with a hammer. I tried using a breaker bar on a larger wrench and it kind of fit over the four bolts on the pulley hub. I then used a pipe clamp to try and pull t he two wrenches together, and that didn't work. By the way, the Everytough 67063 36 mm is not a tight fit on the clutch nut.

I am not a big fan of sealing additives, however Koda2000 had results with K-seal. If the problem is a timing cover, I want to give K-seal a try. Since the water is dripping out when the engine isn't running, I am not sure K-seal has a chance of solving the problem, but want to try it.

The question of the day is whether it's the water pump or timing cover. Anyone who has an idea or can give me an idea how to figure out where the problem is or how to remove the fan clutch is my hero of the day!

Thanks,

Jeff

It's frustrating this happened when I am on the west side of Washington state, helping my 89 year old WW2 vet dad and the outside temps are in the 20's. I live on the east side, about 150 miles away. I can take the bus home Sunday evening and work on the problem when I am at my dad's in two weeks.

 

[crunchie_frog]

Very likely the timing cover, very common leak point. I have redone two of the gaskets on two older 5.0s for the timing chain cover in the last 6 months, both with similar mileage or more than yours and I am holding off another one with sealant as long as I can.

For the fan, you should try other auto parts stores like advance auto or another oreilly's. There should be fan clutch removal tool kit you can get. The 36 mm wrench gets stretched from use (abuse). Also, there should be a larger wrench that you slide over the bolt heads on the pulley that stops it from turning while you turn the fan nut. If that doesn't work, I have hit the fan nut at an angle with a punch and heavy hammer blow and have gotten it to break loose.

The timing chain cover is not a trivial job, good chance you will have difficulties with one or more of the water pump bolts. On the two I have done, I had to use an oxy acetylene torch to heat up some of the bolts to cherry red so they would finally break loose without breaking the bolt. You should do the timing chain as well if you go all the way to replacing the timing cover gasket which I think you will eventually have to do.

You can try the K seal or any of the other sealants and there are some that work better than others however, this will only be temporary. Just check your coolant level regularly and keep it topped off.

 

[koda2000]

I'll warn you that replacing the water pump on the 5.0L is a horrible job. That's because of the bolts rusting inside the timing cover holes and they have a tendency to break rather than come out. With all the Explorer repairs I've made since 2011, the 5.0L water pump rates at the top of my "most miserable jobs" list. If it's the timing cover, I can highly recommend K-Seal. It's not considered a temporary repair and remains in your cooling system to fix future leaks. It will not plug up things, like your heater core or radiator like some products have been known to do. I put it in my daughter's 2000 Mountaineer 5.0L going of 3 years ago. It's never leaked again. I also put it in my 2000 XLT 5.0L about 2 years ago and it's never leaked since. Both vehicles had slightly over 200,000 miles on them when they started leaking.

BTW, I've found the AutoZone and Advance fan clutch removal tools suck. Even if brand new, the jaws on the wrench stretch and slip. O'Reilly's loner tool is much better quality and works well. I've used it 4 times now and have never had a problem getting the nut loose.

 

[JohnsIsland]

Thanks for your reply. Your description of how to use the tools confirmed I was using them correctly. It took me a while to figure out how to hold the pulley. The wrench for the four bolts is falling off, due to the angle and interference from the breaker bar. I think I will try the "Fan clutch holding tool (universal)". If that doesn't work, I will try the K-seal and see if I can stop the leak so I can drive home and use a warm(er) place at work to continue the work.

If I knew it was the water pump, I wouldn't bother trying the K-seal, since I can't imagine any sealer working for a rotating part like the water pump. I might just wait for two weeks and attack the project again, or tow the Mounty home and work on it after work, when I have a bit more time.

Thanks again,

Jeff

 

[koda2000]

Thanks for your reply. Your description of how to use the tools confirmed I was using them correctly. It took me a while to figure out how to hold the pulley. The wrench for the four bolts is falling off, due to the angle and interference from the breaker bar. I think I will try the "Fan clutch holding tool (universal)". If that doesn't work, I will try the K-seal and see if I can stop the leak so I can drive home and use a warm(er) place at work to continue the work.

If I knew it was the water pump, I wouldn't bother trying the K-seal, since I can't imagine any sealer working for a rotating part like the water pump. I might just wait for two weeks and attack the project again, or tow the Mounty home and work on it after work, when I have a bit more time.

Thanks again,

Jeff

In my experience, when Ford water pumps go bad the shaft will move in and out of the pump and they make lots of noise. I'd try the K-Seal first. It may stop a lot of swearing on your part. The timing cover gasket usually starts leaking on the passenger side of the engine and the drips leak straight down to the ground, left of center.

 

[JohnsIsland]

Koda2000,

I want to try K-Seal and reduce the swearing occurring near my mounty. Without the engine running, there is a steady stream of coolant leaking, I don't have a clue what will happen to the water when I start the engine. It's below freezing outside and I might be able to park it outside and make sure the water runs off the driveway (don't want to create an ice skating rink for dad.) Outside air temp is maybe 34, but the ground is colder. I don't know if the engine would warm up with the outside temp and having to add water. I also don't know if the K-seal will work if I am adding water and there is a steady stream of water draining out.

Have you had any experience with K-seal when the engine requires a steady addition of water when it's running?

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[koda2000]

You can't use plain water if it's as cold as you're saying. If the temp drops to 32 degrees it will freeze, expand and crack the engine block ruining it.

When my 2000 XLT was leaking it was running out pretty quickly. I put the K-Seal directly in the radiator, filled it with antifreeze, started the engine and let it idle. In a few minutes the leak completely stopped. I let it run for 30 minutes and after that it was fine. Honestly, I was quite surprised it worked, but I had a bottle in the garage and figured I'd give it a try, being how well it had worked on the Mountaineer.

 

[JohnsIsland]

Koda2000,

Was the coolant and engine cold or warm when you added the K-seal?

If I thought the K-seal would work and I could avoid creating an ice skating rink, I would fill it with water outside, start the engine, add the K-seal and add water as needed until the leak sealed or I gave up. Then I would open the radiator drain, and after it finished draining I would add as much antifreeze as it would take. If it didn't take enough antifreeze to reach 50% coolant, I would have to drain some antifreeze/water and add antifreeze until I reached 50%. I didn't think I would have a problem with freezing if I followed the above procedure.

I have tried two different tools to hold the four bolts, both from Oreillys. One was a crows foot and with a breaker bar, it didn't line up so it wouldn't stay on the the four bolts. Also tried a universal tool, same situation. I see Autozone has a couple of wrenches, not crows feet, so I might head up there tomorrow with my calipers and see if they would work. Not sure what I will accomplish by removing the fan clutch, other than maybe seeing where the leak is.

I have thought about removing two of the four bolts, drilling a piece of flat metal strap metal with a couple of holes for the bolts, and using the strap to hold the wrench on the four bolts. Might have to swap the bolts for the next size, maybe even use washers so the bolts will tighten on the strap across the wrench. So, remove two existing bolts, install strap beneath two bolts, insert wrench beneath strap, and tighten the mess up. Sound crazy?

Jeff

 

[shucker1]

Not trying to be stupid here but are you going the correct way?

If I recall correctly the fan clutch is reverse engine rotation to remove?

I.E. Left Hand Thread?

 

[JohnsIsland]

Thanks for mentioning the threads. I have been wondering if I have the wrong information. From what I have read, fan clutch threads are standard.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/index.php?threads/fan-clutch-thread-direction.298154/

If I am wrong, and the threads are reverse, maybe I could remove the fan clutch.

Jeff

 

[shucker1]

Perhaps a little soaking of "Loose Juice"?

Sometimes a trick I have found with any type of fastener that is stuck, is to go forward a little bit and then try and back it off.

 

[koda2000]

My fan clutches were right hand thread (I've removed 4 of them). The direction is usually embossed on the plastic fan shroud. I believe some were LH thread.

You need to be adding the K-Seal to your antifreeze and leave it in there. If you add it to plain water it would work as well as it would in antifreeze, but you need to leave 100% of the K-Seal in your cooling system for the best result. I guess you could buy two bottles of K-Seal, but it's like $15 for 8 ounces.

It doesn't matter whether the radiator fluid is warm or cold when you put the K-Seal in, but it will work faster if you put it directly in the radiator, rather than the coolant reservoir. Be sure to shake the bottle very well before pouring it in. Then start the engine and let it idle for at least 30 mins.

 

[JohnsIsland]

Koda2000,

A couple of seconds with an air hammer and the fan was off!

Couldn't see any leaks around the water pump (pulled the pulley) or the weep hole. Refilled the radiator, backed it out of the garage and continued filling the radiator, then added one K-Seal. A minute or two later and all I saw were drips from where I spilled adding water to the radiator. That stuff is amazing. Just came back from a test drive, heater kept putting out heat (didn't go low water.) I am going to check the water level, check for drips, let the engine cool down, drain the water and refill with Antifreeze. Hopefully I can put in 1.5 gallons. I thought I was OK with draining the water then refilling with antifreeze. It sounds like you think I should put another bottle of K-Seal in after I drain and refill with antifreeze. I did buy two bottles, I was going to keep one for in the car for emergencies.

A BIG thanks to Koda2000 for the K-Seal suggestion!

Jeff

 

[koda2000]

You're welcome and yes, in my experience K-Seal is amazing stuff.

Personally, after draining the water and refilling with 100% antifreeze, I'd put the second bottle of K-Seal in, because you would have lost most of the first bottle when you drained the radiator. You need to have a reserve of K-Seal partials circulating in the system to make sure the leak remains stopped.

K-Seal may not fix every coolant leak, but it sure works great on 5.0L timing cover gasket leaks. Even at the cost of 2 bottles, it's a cheap easy repair. Please report back in the future and to let us know if it continues to work for you. As I said, it's been around 3 years an approx 30,000 miles since I used K-Seal in my daughter's Mountaineer and it's still working. After I flush the cooling system next spring, I'll be adding another bottle of K-Seal with the fresh coolant.

BTW, To remove the fan clutch you turned the nut to the left, correct? That's a RH thread, to clarify something that someone said earlier, "righty tighty-lefty loosey" is a RH thread not a LH thread.

 

[koda2000]

Koda2000,

A couple of seconds with an air hammer and the fan was off!

Couldn't see any leaks around the water pump (pulled the pulley) or the weep hole. Refilled the radiator, backed it out of the garage and continued filling the radiator, then added one K-Seal. A minute or two later and all I saw were drips from where I spilled adding water to the radiator. That stuff is amazing. Just came back from a test drive, heater kept putting out heat (didn't go low water.) I am going to check the water level, check for drips, let the engine cool down, drain the water and refill with Antifreeze. Hopefully I can put in 1.5 gallons. I thought I was OK with draining the water then refilling with antifreeze. It sounds like you think I should put another bottle of K-Seal in after I drain and refill with antifreeze. I did buy two bottles, I was going to keep one for in the car for emergencies.

A BIG thanks to Koda2000 for the K-Seal suggestion!

Jeff

Curious how the K-Seal repair is holding up? I just throw a bottle into one of our 2000 Mounaineers 5.0L's. Coolant was slowly disappearing to somewhere.

 

[1998Exp]

Thanks in advance to anyone who can give me a clue to the source of a coolant leak!

I have a 96 (97) Mounty, 5.0, AWD with 184,000 miles. I have replaced most of the hoses and radiator in the last year. Friday, I noticed it had lost quite a bit of coolant. Engine off, jacked up the front end, added water and found a steady stream of water dripping off a large bolt next to the lower belt pulley on the driver side. I don't see any puddles above the bolt. Hoses above the belt appear to be dry.

After reading several threads, I tend to think it's a timing cover due to the lack of puddles anywhere above the bolt, but it very well could be water pump. I can't see the water pump weep hole.
...
The question of the day is whether it's the water pump or timing cover. Anyone who has an idea or can give me an idea how to figure out where the problem is or how to remove the fan clutch is my hero of the day!
.

Hope the K-Seal helped, but if you (or someone else) need to diagnose the source of this leak, here is a way: take a flashlight and carefully maneuver it to shine just behind the top right and left corners of the timing cover. That's where it leaks from, and you'll see a small puddle. If you can't get any light in there, use a piece of white rag (or even paper) at the end of a long wire, and dip it in those spots. If it comes out soggy and green, you have your answer. If you don't see any obvious leak, but just noticing disappearing coolant, do with this the system pressurized with a radiator pressure tester.