5r55e troubles, where to go?

[thecause17]

Recently had the O/D light start bliking in my Explorer, '97 SOHC.

I had the code pulled and it showed that the torque coverter is not locking up, which I could tell from just driving it. On a cold start the light would go out once I started driving but would come back on after a couple miles.

I have researched and researched on this and have found lots of information, but right now I am going to assume the worst. Yesterday I dropped the pan. My fluid looked fine, still nice and red, no leaks anywhere before this. I changed the fluid and filter. I started it up and let it idle, and the O/D light went out. I took it for a ride an eventually the light came back on again, nochange from before.

I have ordered a TCC solenoid and plan on putting that in on wednesday. If it's not that then I suspect that the TC clutch is bad, and not engaging. I actually already think that's what it is but I have to narrow it down. When it's cold, I can feel the TC engage, somewhat and watch it on the tach, so to me that means the solenoid is working correct? However, if I give it any gas it does not seem fully engaged as the rpms will rise as if it's not locked up. Once it's warm I can't feel any engagement and the light comes on after it senses a difference in speeds on the TC.

Does anyone have any suggestions for this? I really don't wanna rebuild the whole tranny since there is absolutely nothing wrong with the rest of it. It shifts beautifully in all gears normally.

Is it possible to just rebuild the TC clutch alone? I'm don't know much about trannies and need all the help I can get. I'm really hoping that it's just the solenoid since it seems to be a fairly common problem, but I have my doubts.

 

[Russ in CT]

Since you can feel the TCC engage, the solenoid is at least doing something, as is the TC clutch itself, but when you feel it slipping, it could be because the TCC solenoid is not exerting sufficient hydraulic pressure, which could be an electrical issue with the solenoid (not creating a sufficient magentic force), or a hydraulic leak in the TCC solenoid. Or it could be the clutches themsleves in the TC, worn and slipping.

Yes, it is possible to 'rebuild' the TC clutches, by buying a rebuilt TC (or you could buy a new TC, either way, the clutch inside would be new clutch surfaces).

Your problem is either a bad TCC solenoid, a bad TC, or a bad tranny (OD clutch/bands slipping). Since the cheapest, easiest and most likley culprit is the solenoid, that is why the suggestions have been to replace it. Next to try is the TC, but since the tranny has to come out to do that job, if its really the tranny itself, you'll be pulling the tranny again.

 

[thecause17]

Yeah, TCC leaking is the only reason I am still going to swap in the new one. So to replace the TC itself would fix the clutch? Like I said I don't know much about auto trannies so this is Greek to me. I've rebuilt engines, done swaps, etc...but trannies are not my area.

I really don't think it's the OD clutches/bands because of all the other gears, including overdrive, shifting fine. The only time there are any shifting issues is whenthe light comes on and the tranny is put into what someone on here referred to as "high pressure mode" When the light is out, you cannot even tell there is a problem unless you specifically single out trying to feel the TC lock up. 1-5 gears shift perfectly.

How much do TC's cost?

 

[Russ in CT]

I found the TSB I referred to earlier regarding a run of bad TCC solenoids, its TSB 99-8-6, and its detailed in this thread:

TSB 99-8-6 thread - bad TCC solenoids

If your Ex was built between 10-1-97 and 1-31-98 (see TSB), then I'd say you have an excellent chance the solenoid is your problem (if it was built another date, its still probably the prob, there just isn't a TSB about it).

Think of the TCC solenoid fixing this problem from the standpoint of a clutch for a manual tranny (you said you have experience with cars, just not with auto trannies). Say the master cylinder for the hydraulic clutch were bad, even though the clutch surfaces themselves were OK, you'd have clutch problems because of the inability to apply sufficient pressure to overcome the spring holding the clutch engaged. Now imagine it was the other way around, the spring held the clutch OFF, and the hydraulic pressure from the master cylinder pushed it ON. If the master cylinder were leaking, you couldn't generate sufficient pressure to fully & properly engage the clutch. So it goes with the TCC solenoid inside your auto tranny.

The TCC solenoid, like all solenoids, is simply an electro-magnet, that in this case opens a valve which allows hydraulic pressure from the VB (supplied by the pump inside the tranny) to flow to the TC clutch, to force the plates together to 'lock' the TC.

If your leg doesn't have enough strength to push the clutch pedal (or in this case if the electro-magnet of the solenoid didn't have enough strength due to being worn out, etc), you can't generate the needed pressure, and TCC could slip. If the clutch master cylinder is leaking (or in this case if the TCC solenoid were leaking), you can't generate the needed pressure, and TCC could slip. If the clutch was simply worn out (or in this case if the TCC plates inside the TC were worn out), you'd end up with a slipping clutch.

I looked up a new TC at Auto Zone for the 5R55E as $139. Two tranny shops I asked said a rebuilt TC was about $350 (just for the part). How a rebuilt costs more than 2.5 times a new one, I don't know, but that is what I found.

As a further reference, you can get a rebuilt tranny, with rebuilt TC, from Phoenix rebuilders for $800 (plus ~$250 for round trip shipping, depending how far they are from you). You have to pay a $350 core charge, which they give back once you send yours back (shipping cost incldues the freight to send the old one back).

Phoenix will sell you just the rebuilt TC, too, but they don't list that price (you have to call them).

 

[thecause17]

Thanks for the info...I looked at Pheonix, they actually have a ton of trannies on ebay...and talked to them about shipping etc...that's worst case scenario though. My ex was built in 6-97, but I really hope that's all it is.

Here's a question though, if it is the TCC solenoid, is it hurting it driving it at all? I am hoping that this solenoid takes care of it, the part should be in tomorrow. If not then I am dropping the trans and putting a torque converter in it.

 

[Russ in CT]

Yes, you could be causing damage driving it if its the TCC solenoid. It could be the case that the faulty TCC solenoid is letting the TC clutch slip, causing your code. If it is the TCC solenoid, then that slipping is causing undue wear on your TC clutch plates.

Its not like you can just drive around with O/D off, either, as the TC can and will lock up in the lower gears, so its still going to get the signal from the TCC solenoid to engage, but then not fully engage because of the prob, and slip, causing heat, and rapid wear of the TC clutch.

auto trannies are tough, but what they can't take is low oil pressure, and slipping. Either one can cause rapid wear, in this case of the TC clutch itself.

 

[thecause17]

Yeah, what sucks is I really don't have a choice but to drive it. The solenoid is supposed to be in tomorrow and I am putting it in as soon as I get it home and I'll go from there. I looked at autozones site and they didn't show a converter available...anywhere else I can get it for that kind of price?

 

[Glacier991]

I can give you the name of nationwide suppliers who sell TC's for about $150... brazed fins and all. Rebuilders rip people off on the Price of TC's when they claim $350. BS. You might consider buying a pressure gauge. A bad EPC solenoid could also do something similar. (but I think you are the right track with the TCC solenoid here).

 

[thecause17]

Yeah, that list would be great if you don't mind. I just got done dropping the pan for the second time and replaced the TCC solenoid. No change in the behavior at all...I was pretty optomistic when I first pulled out with it, coasted to the end of my street and when I pulled out onto the main road the light when out...but I could tell as soon as I got some speed up that the TC still wasn't locking up, and it was a matter of a couple miles until the light came back on. The TCC that came out of it was not in the lot numbers listed in that TSB, but was lot number 764, which was just before the mentioned numbers in the TSB, corresponding with my build date. I was optomistic, but it seems nothing was wrong with it....back to the drawing board.

This is started to get old, this is my daily driver and I can't afford to be doing stuff like this on a regular basis.

 

[Glacier991]

Well start with www.aceomatic.com (now on the street known as ATC). Great company. Also do a goodle search for "rebuilt torque converters" (or convertors, both spellings are used) you will find lots. Also check with Torrie at the Ford Parts Network, although his forte is not likely TC's. (he is a site sponsor and a great place for FORD parts at fair prices). TC's are heavy so best to find someone local or close.

 

[thecause17]

I'm wondering if I should just buy a used tranny and put it in...by the time I trace everything I may end up spending that much.