96 Explorer 4.0L 2WD - 4R55E saga. Help needed!

[1karkrazyguy]

Check The Dtc Codes 1st Now... Then Step By Step...

Thanks Dave,

I saw what you did initially with your trans at the very start.

What DTC codes are you now getting from your truck and from the transmission? Have you had them read by a Ford dealer?

The DTC codes are very accurate and tell you exactly what is going on with the transmission and the vehicle, to a very high degree....

Have you checked the transmission fluid when the truck is level and the trannie is at operating temperature?

Mobil1 Synthetic ATF works great.

I have to say that with your mileage on your transmission, I would have also installed a new pump when you rebuilt it, installed a rebuilt valve body with all new solenoids, a new turbine sensor and installed all new hard parts, such as 3 new planetary gear sets, etc. and I also would have checked the wiring harness inside the transmission between the solenoids and the turbine sensor, as well as the connector from the transmission to the rest of the vehicle wiring harness, as I did. Then you should have flushed all the transmission cooler lines and the transmission cooler BEFORE you reinstalled the transmission.

I did all that and no problems. Also as I said earlier a non factory code scanner did not read out all the DTC codes, including the P0732, incorrect gear ratio, one that meant there was a mechanical part failure. I was getting P0756, SS2 failure still as well, which we could see with a non factory scanner, but not the P0732 code....

Get the codes read.

Go through things step by step,

If you are doing a go through of the trannie yourself, buy the ATSG book on the transmission. Very clear, very helpful, walks you through the diagnosis and the DTC codes and a complete tear down and rebuild.

Strange about the EPC solenoid, but if you have a serious mechanical problem still in your transmission causing extreme amounts of wear to band friction surfaces and other parts, yes, that could have ruined the EPC solenoid as it only has two small screens on it.

Good luck and hope this helped.

 

[bdkdave]

Lots of info in your post.... so I'll answer what I can.

The mechanic is almost 2 hours away, so I can't just "stop by" to pull codes. Also, I have an AutoTap scanner that I use. There's been no Ford tech that's pulled the codes at this point.

All the wiring was supposedly checked, and was A-OK.

As for the EPC, I understand your train of thought regarding a damaged trans having the capability to ruin a good EPC, but it seems to me that it would take more than a 10 mile drive to trash a good one. Maybe I'm crazy?

The fluids were flushed and refilled with fresh, and there's NO problems with the fluid at this point. No discoloration, no burned smell, no metal shavings, etc. So I don't see a 10 mile drive with this fluid clogging a good EPC solenoid bad enough to ruin it..

I'm still mulling options, and hoping for a flash of inspiration

Dave

 

[1karkrazyguy]

Could be almost anything in the drivetrain electronics or a battery...

Hey Dave,

Could be a battery going bad, an alternator going bad causing weird electrical problems and problems in a computer controlled drivetrain and engine...... A bad ground at the battery or on the wiring harness in the engine compartment or at the PCM in the firewall in the engine compartment. Check the basics 1st and then work from there. Then do the code scanner again....

If that is all is was, a 10 mile drive, fresh clean trannie fluids yep, hard to see how the borrowed EPC solenoid was damaged by the fluid, unless you have a really serious electrical short with juice going into your transmission case when the engine was running, causing all the solenoids to be shorted out. But then the trannie would not drive or shift correctly at all! But then that juice would also go back to the Powertrain Control Module and short that out.

Again have a Ford shop pull the DTC codes on your trannie and your truck to see what is wrong with it, with the correct code scanner. LOOK AT ALL THE DTC TROUBLE CODES. All the computer sensors on the engine and drivetrain are inter related. Plus, could it be a power issue with a bad battery and a failing alternator OR A BAD GROUND ISSUE? You have a lot more corrosion where you or than what we have in SoCalif.

That's why you have to have ALL the codes read on your truck and then go from there with the repair manual.

I'll tell you a true story about my sister's 96 explorer. 2 years ago when it would rain, during and for a period of time after it had rained and she had driven in the rain, suddenly the headlights, the interior lights, the power windows and the front wipers and the rear wipers would NOT work at all and the interior fan would not blow or work at all and the interior was wet on the driver side footwell and a damp and musty smell was inside the truck.

I went crazy checking everything from the wiring harness, to taking out the aftermarket alarm system, checking all the relays under the dash inside the car and in the engine compartment and the main GEM relay module behind the dash located by the radio. Could not figure it out. The Ford Dealer couldn't figure it out. It would be hot and dry for a few days and all of a sudden everything would work again....

Know what it turned out to be? There was a hole in the firewall where the wiring for the alarm system went through and rainwater was running down the firewall, as well as water that splashed up from the road got in through that hole, and that water was soaking the drivers side footwell carpet and padding with a ton of water and it would stay wet for weeks, especially if it was really rainy, which it was that year in California because of El Nino.

All that moisture, right in that location under the dash in the driver's footwell, which would then wick up through the carpet and the padding to ontop of the trannie tunnel, was shorting out the main comfort power relay, the GEM MODULE.

Dried out the carpets and the padding. Sealed the hole in the firewall. No more problem. The problem magically disappeared as soon as I did that.

So that is why I say, take it step by step, follow the trannie book I recommended, get the codes read and go from there. You will figure the problem out.

Hope this helped and good luck with this.

Nick

 

[bdkdave]

Once again I appreciate the continued support of everyone here on the forums!!

I recently asked the mechanic for a complete rundown of the following:
1) What has been replaced.
2) What has been checked and cleared.
3) What the problems are now.

Here is the reply I received:

---------------------------------------------

We replaced all clutches ,, all seals ,reverse overrunning clutch roller assembly , the output shaft bushing ,, the torque converter ,, all paper gaskets ,, the 3rd gear shift solenoid ,, it was vated and completely cleaned . The only thing I found wrong with it on disassembly was the roller clutch for reverse was flipped so it would no longer lock in either direction ( why it had no reverse ) the original clutches were so nice you could still read the writing on them ,, the steels were perfect , no burnishing , no metal other than the metal from the rear bushing and the plastic from the roller cage that was busted . All the drums air checked as well as the accumulator pistons ,, bands were perfect ,, we replaced them to . I exchanged the big solenoid 4 times with different results every time , It has reverse ,, 1st and second ,, no 3rd or over drive now with the last switch replacement . The fluid was clean up to the last time . I don't know what else to tell you ,, its been disassembled since it was installed ,, and I had XXXXXXX (another mechanic) watch me take it apart and we air checked everything , I couldn't find anything wrong ,, I'm lost on the electrical issues . Let me know if you need any more info ,, I will get back with you ASAP ,,

 

[1karkrazyguy]

Get all the DTC codes again from the truck and post them

Hey Dave,

Happy new year. Sorry to hear no solution for you and your mechanic.

I would get all DTC codes again for your truck to see what is going on and post them here. I do have the ATSG transmission rebuild book for this trannie that helps to diagnose the problem based on the DTC code read out from your PCM.

Post all the DTC codes for the truck. Do that and I'll try to give you what info I have based on the codes from the ATSG manual.

I'm surprised your guy did not put in a new pump and a new FORD turbine sensor in the bellhousing for the torque convertor, as well as a rebuilt / reconditioned valve body when he replaced those hard parts. 168K is a lot of miles to be on the original valve body and pump and turbine sensor.

Did your mechanic in the rebuild, flush the transmission cooler in case there was a hard part blockage in the cooler or lines?

Has he attached a pressure guage to the transmission test port on the driver's side and driven the truck to see what the pressure readings are? The ATSG manual has those too.

Talk to you soon.

Nick

 

[bdkdave]

Guess this is up to me now!!

Hey guys - picking this back up. I can't believe this has dragged on almost a year.

I've pretty much lost faith in mechanic working on this. Basically he's now saying the tranny is 100% mechanically ok, and that the issue must be electrical (he's touting ECM) and that he doesn't "do" electrical. I should've known something was up when he asked ME for the spec ohm readings on the shift solenoids....

He's also laid the ground work for refusing any type of refund by saying that he's "spent way more than what I was paid." This is going to get ugly!

At this point my only real course of action is to trailer the truck home, and try to tackle this myself.

I've spent all night looking through threads and stickies, trying to educate myself and not have to bug people. I've seen the 5R55E VB rebuild diary... would the same info apply for the 4R55E VB?

I'm tempted to begin looking for an ECM just for giggles... is there a "rule of thumb" to follow when replacing these things? I was given the following information:

"Prefix on door for cpu: F67F-DC MKK2- 603163

Bar Code Id number on connection end of CPU :
F67F-12A650-DC *DLFHB066BHRZ G-NPF-62112"

Thanks as always for those who continue to help me through this!

 

[1karkrazyguy]

IMHO, some suggestions......

Hi Dave,

Sorry to hear your situation. I re-read all the posts on this thread.

This is just a transmission and yes, there are people out there that know how to repair it. Take it to one of them and just pay the money to get it fixed.

Initially my suggestions are:

OPTION #1:
Take the truck to a Forum recommended local transmission shop in your area and mechanic who knows what they are doing and let them diagnose it and fix the transmission, even if that means a complete tear down and rebuild all over again. Pay for it, document what they find with digital pics, keep the replaced parts and then sue the 1st mechanic in small claims court. Check this website out below.

http://www.atra.com/


OR contact this place below and the owner listed below. Very helpful, very experienced with all types of automatic transmissions and he responds to emails and they sell quality rebuilt trannies at a very reasonable price.

http://roadmastertranz.com/aboutus.htm


Or you can continue with the process you are in and doing the following:

OPTION #2:
After getting a Ford dealer to read out the DTC codes and print them out for you, you do the repairs yourself if you have the knowledge and tools, using the ATSG Service Manual, do a complete tear down of the transmission, document what you find, rebuild it completely from the ground up, all new parts hard and soft and then sue the 1st mechanic in small claims court.

OPTION #3:
Buy a low mileage used replacement 4R55E trannie on eBay or from a local junkyard in working condition, install it and sell the truck and then sell your old "repaired" trannie.

It just depends on how much time you have to continue to put into this problem....

There are so many interelated things it could be, but you have to approach this problem in a methodical and step by step manner to find the solution.

This is also assuming that your transmission mechanic did what he said he did, replaced what he said he replaced and knows what he is doing when working on this transmission mechanically and electronically as he rebuilt it. He could have done many many things wrong, or not done what he told you he did. the only way to prove that is to have another certified trannie pro open the trannie up, diagnose, document with pics and repair the problems.

Before I go into issues, did you and your mechanic check to see that the Transmission Range Sensor mounted on the outside of the case on the driver's side is positioned correctly where it is mounted and is it in operating condition?

The shift lever on the steering column is connected to it by a cable and this is how the transmission is shifted into gear and reverse and into the other gears manually. This cable does stretch and can cause a problem, but the re-positioning of the TRS should correct that to a certain extent.

If the TRS is not installed in the correct position on the outer case, the transmission will not shift correctly as the TRS will be incorrectly positioned and you will not even get the reverse lights to go on at the back of the truck. I assume that your mechanic removed it when he cleaned the outer case. He might not have re-installed it correctly.

But on to the big picture.

The 167,000 mileage on the truck/transmission, the backing up incident which seems to have initially broken a hard part in the transmission and the subsequent attempts at a repair, here is my 2 cents. You still have a mechanical problem and your transmission repair guy is incompetent and misrepresenting things to you that he has done...

1. If prior to the backing up incident and the current problems, all you ever did was flush the trannie fluid @ 100K, and you have 167,000 miles on the trannie, then the trannie was ready for a complete rebuild with all new hard parts internally (pump, planetary gears, turbine sensor, rebuilt valve body that also includes new solenoids, all new heavy duty clutches, cages, etc.) all new seals, O-rings, gaskets, internal transmission wiring harness for the turbine sensor and the solenoids, the transmission temp sensor and the transmission range sensor on the outside of the case.

That's just for the transmission.

I am assuming that all other Drivetrain electronic controls of the truck are functioning and running correctly. Again as I earlier said, these are computer controlled transmissions that are shifted, based on the other drivetrain sensors on the engine and transmission. That includes the engine water temp sensor, the oil temp sensor, the intake air sensor, the Throttle Position sensor, the Vehicle Speed Sensor, the ABS sensor in the rear differential, that the air filter is not blocked, the Mass Air Flow sensor, the Power Steering Pressure Switch, the Brake On/Off Switch (BOO), the Transmission Control Switch(TCS) on the end of the shifter that manually controls the OD engagement, the Air Conditioning Clutch, the Electronic Ignition Modules, and the Powertrain Control Module..... and on and on. Plus that is assuming the wiring harness is good, the battery is good and the alternator is good and supplying a consistent voltage and that all grounds are good on the vehicle.

How long have you known your trannie mechanic? Was he a recommendation?

1. Don't know about your transmission guy and if he is a fulltime trannie repair guy or a jack of all trades mechanic at a small shop. These trannie's are not hard to repair when you sort them out step by step and especially if you use the ATSG Techtran rebuild guide/manual. This manual is very methodical, step by step in the diagnosis process and explains all the interelated computer controls/sensors that could be causing the problem/problems. It could be more than one sensor or a combination of things sensor and mechanical. You need an accurate read out of the DTC codes.

2. Have you asked anyone on this forum for a recommendation for a good transmission shop near where you live? There has to be one or a Ford shop that can read the DTC codes.

3. Once you have the DTC codes, then use the ATSG manual to accurately diagnose using the DTC codes, step by step, what is wrong and completely go through the transmission yourself mechanically and electrically and all the related engine/drivetrain controls.

4. Or another option: sue your mechanic in small claims court and recover what you have paid him because he has not repaired the transmission and take the truck/transmission to a Forum recommended mechanic in your area.

There has to be someone good in your area.

This is not rocket science. It's a transmission. It's just common sense and a step by step diagnosis process using the right tools and manual.

Unfortunately it's human nature, that human beings look for a cheap, quick, simple fix and when they go that route, it ends up being more expensive, taking longer and being a little more complex in finding a solution.

Or just sell the truck at this point and move on.....

Hope this helps.

Nick

 

[bdkdave]

Nick -

Thanks for a post full of good thought and info. You obviously put time into your reply and I thank you for that.

Here are some short answers to questions you raised:

1) Mechanic was found via local Craigslist posting looking for someone who could do the repair, so no prior knowledge personally. Spent some time at his shop, which was well equipped, and he seemed to have good knowledge.

2) I have the ability to pull codes via my laptop and AutoTAP software. Unless, that is, this isn't sufficient? Is my setup not capable of pulling everything properly? The setup certainly wasn't cheap! lol

3) It's looking more and more like I'm going to do this myself. My brother-in-law was victim of a plant closing and is currently looking for new work. This means money is tight for them, so buying a rebuild from a known good source like you mentioned isn't in the cards.

This isn't a bad thing, as I've always wanted to learn more about the inner workings of a tranny.

Mostly looking for confirmation that it's something a "shadetree" kinda guy could do if he took his time and followed the manual. And it sounds like it is.

As luck would have it, I received another note from the mechanic while drafting my reply. Here it is:

" I can tell you with out a doubt the EPC solenoid you sent me was bad . I can tell you we are fairly positive it took out the valve body .I need an EPC solenoid now and a valve body . I can tell you it no longer stores any type of transmission code . I can tell you it doesn't have overdrive and it has low line pressure . We are going over it one piece at a time till we are positive that there is no problem in the transmission . I have no other news for you yet . I have to get the valve body and EPC problem resolved so I can have someone check the powertrain control module . When I get news I will send it . Mark"

 

[1karkrazyguy]

Get the DTC codes with your unit, post them here, buy ATSG rebuild manual

Hi Dave,

If your trannie runs fine initially and then is still shifting from 1st to 3rd with no 2nd, you must have DTC PO732, incorrect gear ratio, which means a mechanical failure in the trannie, like the intermediate stainless steel friction band on the drums is broken at it's attachment point in the case or is not adjusted correctly or is not secured in position.

Mine did the same thing. We dropped the valve body and saw a broken band. My mechanic's assistant did not give him all the codes, which were P0756 and P0732. The P0732, incorrect gear ratio, would have told my mechanic immediately of a mechanically failure of a hard part.

Pull the DTC codes with your computer system and post them here. I will look them up in the ATSG rebuild manual and give what suggestions I can.

Like I said, it could be a few other things, but I seriously doubt it is the Powertrain Control Module, which mounts in the firewall in the engine compartment on the passenger side. It controls the engine, everything and unless some water has gotten in there, I doubt there is a problem with it.

Same thing with the EPC being bad, especially with the other one you put in.

Buy the ATSG manual on eBay for $15. Pull the DTC codes with your computer. Get them driving as well as when the truck is parked, Key On, Engine Off (KOEO) and then with the engine running. (KOER)

You do not know what this guy has done or not done in the rebuild as you did not watch him do it and you do not know what parts he installed that are new. Is he a transmission specialist/mechanic or a general automotive repair shop mechanic?

With the mileage on your trannie, it should have had a complete overhaul from all the internal hard parts being replaced such as intermediate, overdrive and reverse bands, all drums, heavy duty clutches, all planetary gear sets, a new transmission fluid pump etc., to all gaskets and a rebuilt valve body that comes with new solenoids and FORD oem turbine sensor installed and a new internal wiring harness for the solenoids, transmission fluid temp sensor and the turbine sensor, as well as the transmission range sensor mounted on the outside of the case on the drivers side.

Could be other sensors on the powertrain, but I doubt it.

Get me the DTC codes and post them here. Buy that manual or get it locally. Well illustrated and informative.

Nick

 

[1karkrazyguy]

Hi Dave,

Replace the trannie. Sue the mechanic at the repair shop.

May I suggest this place on eBay? This guy who owns and runs this shop, gives a great warranty, 2 years, 24000 miles and is very reasonable. I emailed back and forth with him when I had my problems and he was very helpful.

Check the listing below as well as his website.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford...230105709010QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVWQQtcZphoto


Nick

 

[bdkdave]

Pushing onward....

I've decided I'm doing this myself, and have started looking for parts, manuals, etc on *bay.... In prepping, I sent a final "what's the status at this moment" email and received this:

I can tell you with out a doubt the EPC solenoid you sent me was bad . I can tell you we are fairly positive it took out the valve body .I need an EPC solenoid now and a valve body . I can tell you it no longer stores any type of transmission code . I can tell you it doesn't have overdrive and it has low line pressure . We are going over it one piece at a time till we are positive that there is no problem in the transmission . I have no other news for you yet . I have to get the valve body and EPC problem resolved so I can have someone check the powertrain control module . When I get news I will send it.


I've ordered the ATSG manual, at a 4R55E tool kit. I'm waiting for them to arrive, and I get this mail today:


As far as the main drive line , its perfect , What we found this time apart is stuck valve body valves and pressure related blown seals . When we switched the epc solenoid out that you sent me, it caused a pressure problem that blew them out . I know this becuase when we put the other one back in and the good one we borrowed ,, the transmission didnt go back to working like it did before we tried that one . No one I can find that is knowlegable in these transmissions will touch the valve body . All the remanufacturer shops like Jennings and Annco send them off to be remanufactured . They rebuild the transmission and replace the valve body with new or tested soleniods right out of the box from their supplier . They get a huge price break as they buy hundreds of valve bodies for all types of Transmissions. The point being , I will need a valvebody thats correct for this transmision . We are looking for one in a 96 core that will work . I will let you know as soon as I find one and get the tranny back in the truck .

NEVER again will I trust someone like this....

 

[1karkrazyguy]

Get The Dtc Codes Read By Someone Else

Hi Dave,

Your mechanic has got to be kidding. If the transmission is not working correctly, there will be DTC codes stored in the PCM detailing what the problem is.

Approach this step by step, logically.

1. As I have said in my earlier emails to you and postings here, you need to go back to Step 1, get the DTC codes.

2. If there are no DTC codes being read out from the truck by your current code scanning tool and the trannie is not running right, try another code scanning tool.

3. If the second code scanning tool does not work and returns no DTC codes at all, there is a communications error/problem. Then go through the transmission wiring harness pin by pin, where it comes out of the transmission case and where it plugs into the main truck wiring harness. Check both sides of this harness pin by pin.

THEN CHECK THE PCM IN THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT FIREWALL FOR WATER DAMAGE/CORROSION AND WATER CORROSION IN THE CONNECTOR ITSELF. PIN BY PIN.

4. If the transmission wiring harness checks out OK, then try to get a Ford Rotunda NGS code scanning tool to check your truck for DTC codes.

If it is not something mechanical, electrical or pressure related in the transmission itself, then it is one of the electronic sensors on the powertrain. This is an integrated system of sensors controlling the engine and the transmssion.

First, this mechanic sounds like he doesn't know what he is doing, at all. The PCM(powertrain control module) will store the DTC codes from the transmission not working correctly. If the PCM was bad, was water damaged, the truck would not run.

If he knew what he was doing, he would give you the DTC codes, the line pressure readings and go through everything step by step what he has done in a technical manner. He has not.

I'll say this again Dave, take the truck to another transmission place, to a Ford dealer and have them read the DTC codes on the truck.

Start from there.

Good luck.

Nick


You can get a completely rebuilt valve body with all new solenoids very reasonably. http://www.phoenixhardparts.com/browseproducts/4R55E-Standard-VB.HTML $199 for a tested, rebuilt valve body.

This is a transmission parts supply company.

http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=2&Category_Code=4R44Ekits

http://www.bulkpart.com/

http://www.usatransdoctor.com/DomesticFORDselectandAnswers.htm#4R44E

 

[Glacier991]

"pressure related blown seals" is a tip off this guy is not up and up. I read his messages and advice you to RUN, not walk, away from this guy.

 

[bdkdave]

Bring 'er home!!

I like to keep raising this one from the dead, don't I?

Returned home after an extended work stay out of state, so I'm back on track with the sister's truck.

Happily, my ATSG manual arrived while I was gone.

Also arriving while I was gone was this GEM from the "mechanic": :thumbdwn:

"A new premium valve body is $311.98 and a tested used valve body is $195 from Transtar . I am well satisfied the problem isn't mechanical in the transmission ,, its either a shot valve body or some glitch in the trucks electrical system or computer . I have checked every possible thing in this one that mechanically could cause the problems ,, its fixed in that respect . I can in no way trouble shoot this trucks electrical system nor can I put it back together as is . It will need a valve body ,, and possibly more from a dealership or someone that's an expert in electrical diagnosis in the Ford field concerning computer and transmission operations . I am going to have the transmission completely reassembled by Friday all but the valve body ,I did not reassemble it last week as I had a Ford transmission mechanic inspect it and we are confident its electrical not mechanical in nature ,, I was paid to fix what was broken ,, I did ,, We don't feel the remaining problem is something a transmission repair will fix . I have more money in it that I was paid for labor and parts ,, I'm not spending any more on it . If I'm provided with a valve body I can put it all back together and we can see if it will be fixed ,, if it fails to operate properly after that ,, it will need further troubleshooting elsewhere than the transmission and I am done with it . I have no problem putting it back together and trying it again . I will need a valve body . I will supply fluids and filter and all labor putting it back in the truck and making it a complete vehicle . After that point ,, I expect no money nor will I refund any . I have gone above and beyond what I was responsible to do and I have had other technicians agree this is the point I need to stop and let it go elsewhere . I need to know what you want me to do now . Thanks Mark"


Nick - as always, thanks VERY much for your input. You've never left a response that wasn't well thought out and very well put. I owe you a beer or two if I'm ever close enough to make good on it.

Glacier - your opinion is valued as well, as I know you've not become so well regarded here without reason. Thanks for your input as well.


I placed the calls and emails today telling the guy to put it back like he found it, I'm coming to get it. I only wish I'd been hit with a brick sooner....

With ATSG manual in hand, and the wealth of information within this online community, I've no hesitation in tackling my first tranny job. :biggthump:

 

[1karkrazyguy]

Good luck and I am sure it will turn out OK!





Dave,

No worries.

Make sure this person gives you all the hard and soft parts he replaced when you pick up your truck.

Have this person put the trannie back together and reinstall it in the truck and have the codes read out by your local Ford dealer. Use the ATSG manual to diagnose the actual problem, as the manual is pretty comprehensive and takes you through everything step by step.

Good luck and pass along the goodwill to someone else that needs it. In the long run, that will make this place a better world for us all.

Nick