96 Explorer tranny slip?

[david_86]

Wow, where do I start? I bought this truck a year ago from a dealership, and it seemed to be running fine. (1996 Explorer XLT 4x4, 4.0L V6, 4spd Auto trans) The interior/exterior was in excellent shape (almost new) so it leads me to believe the owners took good care of it. (including a sticker under the hood saying the tranny, transfer case, fluid were changed at about 130,000km's)

I bought it at 160,005 km. (kinda strange why they sold it right at 160k, but whatever, maybe it's coincidance) I now have about 164,780km on it. (I dont' drive very much, only 5000km in a year!)

It's always shifted rather hard since I bought it. Like, under gentle acceleration, you would feel it shift hard (almost as if you tapped the brakes, it would kinda lunch a bit) at about 30km/h. Again, around 50km/h, or if you are trying to accelerate still, it would shift around 60km/h instead. Then, it would shift again at 80km/h. Each time, it would get a bit softer. If I was hard on the gas, it would shift bit later each time (RPM would get higher, I guess for more power), and it would shift even harder. My dad always told me not to worry, and that it was good for it to shift harder because it won't slip as much.

May 4th, just a few weeks ago, I brought my truck in for service. I needed an oil change and tire rotation, and this time I decided to tell them about the tranny shifting hard. (It's been in about 5 times before in the past year for various small things, and they've never said anything about the tranny). Well, they took all bloody day of course, and I get the call. "Yeah, we took it for a test drive, and you definately need new tranny." Well, I went in to talk to the tranny specialist they have there, and he's trying to tell me I have to 2nd gear. He never dropped the pan or anything, all he said (and was documented) he did was a road test.

Well, the funny thing was, when I left, it was SMOOTH! Like, I couldn't feel it shift at all, except for seeing the RPM drop. They deny they made any changes to it. Now, here is what scares the hell outta me.

I was merging onto a 80km/h road (doing about 55km/h through the onramp) now, normally I was able to push the pedal really hard (I've even had to floor it a couple times because people just do NOT want to make room) and I was pretty sure it would jump into 2nd gear, RPM would be 3500 or so, and I would get in, and it would shift down to 3rd nice and hard. NOW, it seems to slip. You feel it jump out, suddently the engine RACES up to the redline (well, just under 5000RPM) and it feels like my tires are slipping. I quickly let off the gas, and it shifts back to 3rd or something. It's started doing this more often. Slowly, (my dad told me to just 'drive it') it started to get a bit of bite back to it's shifting patterns again.

Now, just to test, I did the following. I found a quiet road near a friends house. I put the column shifter in 1st, and accelerated all the way to 50km/h (engine was well over 3000RPM up there) and let off the gas, and you could feel it kick in and slow the truck down, as if I was touching the brakes. I put it in 2nd gear, and did the same. I could feel it seemed to slip a bit, but it caught and easily accelerated to 50km/h, and when I let off the gas, the RPM's dropped to about 1000RPM, and I just coasted. I've also counted the shift points on faster roads. Same kinda thing.
1) off the line
2) Shift at about 30km/h
3) Shift at about 50-70km/h
4) Shift at about 80km/h

When I'm doing around 80km/h, if I turn off the overdrive, it kicks back down to what I'm pretty sure is 3rd. (Engine under 3500RPM still)

Just the other day, I was in busy traffic, doing about 40-50km/h, and tried to accelerate. I pushed the pedal in (not aggressive or more than half way I'd say) and it seemed to slip again. I felt a vibration in the pedal, and the engine just raced up to nearly 5000RPM in an instant. I let off the pedal, and pressed gently back on, and it still didn't want to shift. I was just getting through the intersection when it finally seemed to hit 3rd. (RPM dropped down to about 1100-1200RPM I think, and I started to accelerate) On the way home, it seemed to behave better.

The fluid, it's red with a bit of silver in it. It's definately full, maybe a tiny bit over. The tranny guy says I need a new one. Today, it did the same thing. Accelerating while already moving trying to get up to about 70km/h, and it slipped, engine raced, and it took a second or two (seems like forever in busy crazy traffic) and I'm guessing it caught 3rd again. (I was likely doing about 50km/h when I hit the gas again). Now, the bloody "Check Engine" light popped on shortly after, and won't go out!

I don't race this thing, and I don't drive it like a maniac. Yeah, I give 'er hell once and a while at a light (no more than once a month) as I was told it helps clean out the carbon buildup in the engine and keep all the parts moving. So, this truck definately has not been abused by me I'd say.

Sorry for the long novel, but I figured the more detailed I was, the more likely someone could have a better idea what might be happening. I don't see any leaks under the truck... The dealership keeps saying I need to replace the tranny. I don't have that kind of money right now. (Just a full time post-sec student right out of my first year)

Any suggestions? Or am I screwed?

 

[410Fortune]

OKay hello.
It is possible this A4LD automatic has been rebuilt in the past. It is also possible that your trans shifts hard because of a problem, or its age.

First you need to know a little something about this transmission. The LD in A4LD stands for "light duty", so Automatic 4 speed Light Duty is what we are dealing with. This transmission was used in Ranger based trucks from mid 80's through 95 or something and is still used today, just upgraded and with a different name.

Your transmission has 3 gears and a lock up torque converter. The computer controls the hydraulic lock up solenoid that locks up the converter. So your in 2nd and 3rd gear you might feel what feels like a shift, but it is actually the converter locking up.

the first thing to do is a visual inspection.
Your transmission has a few connections to the truck, it has:
kick down cable (from gas pedal)
Shift linkage (from column shift, cable)
Vacuum line (from vacuum tree on upper intake to pass side of trans, modulator)
and a wiring harness

The kick down cable is VERY important to proper A4LD function. It is self adjusting at the firewall, basically you push down a button and pull it out. Get in the truck push the gas pedal and it adjusts.

The vacuum line is very important as well, you need to check it is hooked up and sealed, you can do a vacuum test onthe engine manifold to ensure your truck is running properly

I assume your shift linkage is fine since you drive it and have all gears (PRND21)

You can check the wiring harness and make sure it is seated and routed safely, not burned by exhaust.

The A4LD 2-3 shift (OD) and lock up converter are controlled by the PCM, or trucks computer. So many things with the engine can effect how the A4LD acts. Usually if a sensor (throttle position for example) that the computer relys on for input goes out of range you will get a check enging light.

All these are things to think about.
The A4LD is a good transmission from Ford, but once rebuilt, often it can be VERY problematic. The issue is the rebuild/rebuilder these suckers are really touchy and you cannot skimp oon parts or proceedure or they will go downhill fast.

This could be why your truck has traded hands.
Can you get a history report on the trans?

Now don't fret, you can search for A4LD and read all day on this forum. We have solutions to hsave you $$$$ and get it done right, or run a completely different transmission if you wish

I am trying to point you in the right direction, I am not a transmission expert, I have a transmission guy I use for that, but I know enough to get me by. there are others on this board who can help you diagnose your specific problem and find a fix.

However given my history with the A4LD, you might start thinking about a full rebuild or replacement, but drive it till it quits!!! (get your $$$'s worth)

 

[david_86]

Well, thanks for the excellent reply! I appreciate the simple terms. I'm a computer wiz, not a mechanic, so my understanding is very limited. I went to a local 'transmission specialist' today, who took it for a free test drive. He's saying, "It slips going into 2nd, and when you kick down from 3rd, it free wheels." That makes sense. He's telling me I'm looking at a complete rebuild, and it's going to cost about 1-2 grand. (canadian). He says it's best to do it as soon as possible, because if I drive it, I may damage more and have to buy a new one at over 3 grand.

So, I spoke to my dad. He wants me to go to a garage his friend owns, so at least I can get what I know is an honest opinion. I'll hopefully be getting down there sometime next week. (Way the hell on the other side of the city from me).

I will try and take a look for what you mentioned, primarily the kick down cable.

One more thing I forgot to mention... It's likely impossible to tell what it is from this explanation though. When I'm sitting still in reverse or drive, I can hear something rattling from under the truck. If I put it in Neutral or Park, it goes away. Hell, could be some tiny thing slightly loose and the vibrations make it rattle, but oh well.

Again, thanks for the long reply, I really appreciate it! I'll keep you all informed on any more developments.

Take care,


Dave

 

[Glacier991]

One note... the computer controlled shift into OD is not the 2-3 but the 3-4. The rattle is likely the cat heat shield, I'd not get too worried.

 

[410Fortune]

If the transmission needs to be rebuilt then you will need to replace all teh hard and soft parts, you are not going to do any more damage to it byu driving it.
Usually they will swap you a unit they already built for yours as a core anyways.

check the fluid, linkage and drive it as long as you can.

 

[payne687]

Just went through this...

David, my 95XLT just had the exact same problems yours is having. It got to the point where it would slip out of gear when shifting and never return to a gear, so I'd be stuck in neutral sitting at a light or intersection. Sucks. I took mine to AAMCO for a full rebuild. Got the 1-year warranty. It's already been back once for problems, and I'm starting to have the same sliping out of gear at shift problems again. You're definitely headed for a rebuild, so don't take any long trips or anything or you'll be stranded. Mine went from fine to dead on the road in three days from when I started noticing the problem. My suggestion is find someone who does good transmission work and will give you a warranty. Oh, and don't use AAMCO. Trust me on that one. I paid for the tranny than I did for the truck itself, and it's still not right.

 

[david_86]

Almost....done...... <<boom>>

payne687, how many km's did you have on it? I'm just concerned. I only have 165000km on mine, and it's already about to blow up. (Isn't that a little early for a tranny rebuild on average for most vehicles?)

Just a little note (to keep things up to date). Today, I went to work. It's only about 3 km away, (hence I'll be biking from now on) and it wouldn't shift into 2nd gear PERIOD. I was almost redlined trying to stay withing 20km/h under the speedlimit. (Thank Christ traffic was really light at that time).

So, I have it booked in tomorrow. It's going to be a fun drive getting all the way up north with a dead tranny. (It shifted into 2nd on the way home, but only under REALLY gentle acceleration). I'll let you know tomorrow (if I don't jump off a bridge) what he says.

And by the way, that rattling I was talking about in my earlier posts, it's MUCH WORSE. It's so bad now that when I back into my driveway, my passenger side mirror is shaking. (Well, vibrating very noticibly). It's also a fair amount louder.

So yeah, I'm thinking it's most likely going to be a serious rebuild. Time to call my investor and get some stock sold NOW, LOL.

Take care,


Dave

 

[david_86]

Update as of Wednesday June 1

Alright, here is my update as of today. I took it up to that place that was recommended, and they did a pressure test. Funny thing was, my stupid check engine light went out ON THE WAY THERE. Damn thing.

Pressure test showed very low pressure in 2nd, 3rd, and less than half stated for Reverse. (Supposed to be 180, it was like 80 or something)

Sooooo, then it popped out. "It's definatly gotta come out" So, it's in for a rebuild right now. Said it would most likely be around 1800 bucks, and it's very common for that tranny to have problems. He said they replace it with all updated and heavy duty parts, so it'll be much tougher. Hopefully. He also said the solenoids were working fine. At least something looks alright.

Anyways, I'll fill you in on the rest when I find it out.


-----------------
JUNE 1st UPDATE
-----------------
Well, I got the call this morning. Turns out the pump went, which cause the low pressures, and it broke lots of stuff. 2nd gear is destroyed, the bands are chewed to hell. The core is chewed up, and lots of other little things are also broken in there. So, a full rebuild, complete with all updates, heavy duty parts, and electronics is costing $2400 (CND) with GST. Guess thats to too insanely bad. (They said the parts alone retail at about $2600, so I guess that means they apparently gave me a deal to charge 200 less, with install...)
Either way, thats getting done. I just have to wait for my money to get wired into my acct, then I can pay for it and drive again!

So yeah, for future reference and readers, perhaps this is something that can be of use! Check the pump!!!


Take care,


Dave

 

[Glacier991]

I have heard before that rebuilders will tell people the parts cost XYZ - with the number being way overinflated. For $2600 I could build one from brand new parts, and have money left over. Full rebuild parts will run around $1000 US if you end up replacing sprags, center support, drums and planets and pump.

 

[david_86]

ALRIGHT!!!

Here is the (hopefully) last post and update here!

So, I picked it up yesterday (after over an hour on transit, and walking for two hours through the pooring rain.) On the way home, it did it AGAIN. This time, it missed 3rd gear! The engine would race, and you could feel it vibrating as if the tranny was slipping but couldn't engauge. Well, I was PISSED!!! It did it a few more times, and I finally had to pull over because it wouldn't get out of basically neutral until I slowed down enough (WELL below the speed limit.) I called them, VERY angry, saying I just dropped 2400 bucks like 10 minutes ago, and it's still slipping!!! He just told me to drive it lots over the weekend, because the valves (which he had to replace) might just be 'resetting themselves.'

So, I called my dad, and he just said, "Well, drive it till it blows. It's still under warranty right now, so don't worry about it, just drive it lots. Put your foot into it, just not too much so you don't hurt the engine."

So, I did just that. I was driving with a friend to Boston Pizza that night, and it slipped the 2nd time in a row, so instead of letting off the gas, I pushed it in harder. It vibrated pretty good, and once the RPM hit about 3500RPM, it just went ***CLUNK*** and MAN did it shift hard. Hasn't slipped since!!! I guess I may have finally broken it in!

Now, it still has it's hard shift, but it feels faster and more precise. Reverse enguages much faster, and it's a nice solid, but fast shift. It feels much better. I will drive it more this weekend just to make sure that it's no longer slipping, but I think it's good!!!

Only thing is, it still rattles sitting still in reverse or drive... (goes away when in Neutral or Park.) Also, I get a small ticking noise when the RPM gets over 2 grand. I stopped, opened the door, slipped it in neutral, and reved up to over 3 grand, and it's definately not the engine. It sounds like it's coming from the dash almost, behind the tach, but I can't really lean forward that much to get my ear close to make sure. (Gotta drive ya know ) Like, it's pretty quiet, so whatever. I've got a year. If something exploads, I can go back for warranty I guess.

But yeah, like I said, hopefully this is the last time I have to make a post! My first vehicle, and my first major repair. It was in a way, exciting, but also it sucked, cuz I really wasn't ready for something this big so soon.


Anyways, big thanks for all the replies! Take care everyone!


Dave

 

[99EURO]

Same problems

I have a 99 Explorer with the 4.0 V6 and its doing the same thing. This is the 3rd transmission that has been in this thing since it was new. Its under warranty so I am hoping they will replace it. What a shame to have so many problems out of a vehicle. Ford screwed alot of people on these things.