98 exp. 4.0 4wd trans questions

[Facimeor]

Ok, so Ive looked around, read a bunch of stickys and believe Im ready to ask a few questions.

Vehicle: 98 Explorer XLT, 4.0SOHC, automatic, 4WD (control trac), 303K miles.

I just bought this truck (cheap) so I unfortunately know nothing about its history. It runs great and drives fine forward. All gears seem good, shifts smooth and firm (no flare). When putting trans into reverse, it does nothing. There might be a barely perceptable idle change but even with a little more RPM there is no engagement into reverse. I do hear a slight noise kind of like a chain rattle coming from the transmission area.

Previous owner said wife drove it daily, came out after work one day and it just wouldnt go into reverse. (she did not mention any kind of clunk or pop when it happened)

Soooo...having read other related threads my best guess is a broken low/reverse band. I plan to drop the pan first and do some further diagnostics, but havent had a chance yet.


Here are my questions:
1. yards are telling me the 98 is a 1 year only transmission, What makes this so, and is it possible to frankenstein any combinations together or modify another year to make it work?

2. Im a pretty competent mechanic and Im considering attempting my first trans rebuild on this. Ive rebuilt plenty of motors and have enough experience I think I could manage it, Ive just never rebuilt one. Will I need any special tools? What if all I want to do is the bare minimum inside (reverse band, gaskets, seals, etc.)?

3. If I do attempt to rebuild it is there a "rebuild kit" available somewhere that has everything in one package or is there a list of parts I should order ahead of time?

Thanks for any help ahead of time.

 

[greedyfly]

Well good luck getting someone to reply to your thread.Ive been trying to get help for over a week,but no one seems willing to help new forum members.I'll give you my opinion based on what i've read.Most likely the problem is with the valve body gaskets since you still have all forward gears.This is easy to inspect with trans still on vehicle.You can also inspect the servo and band while your in there.With that said,300k,it's probably time for a rebuild anyhow.Purchase the complete kit and look for any upgrades to go with it.You should be okay with your mechanic exp,just follow the stickies and buy the ATSG manual.As far as the 1 year trans?I got a few different answers what years are interchangeable with mine,call a few different yards and compare answers.Look at the sticker on the drivers door and look at the TR code,its 1 letter.D for example.Search the board for trans code,its in a sticky up there somewhere.I'm no expert,and these are only my opinions,I just hate to see people being treated porly because they are new.100 views no replys.Good luck.

 

[Facimeor]

yeah, no worries, its tough being the FNG sometimes. Im extremely active on several other maker boards and always do whatever I can to help others when the time comes. Its no big deal to me. I might have posted prematurely anyway since I planned to get in past the vb before I asked anyway since then I will know for sure if the trans needs rebuilt.

I just bought the truck as a parts truck for my 97 but after driving it home it was just too nice to sacrifice to that cause. Im almost certain its had some major repairs or replacements done already (I have a hard time believing this thing is 303K original), so I really dont think the trans needs a full rebuild....yet.

I will just keep checking back and post up new info when I have it anyway.


ohh and one thing I was told was that the 97 has a sensor in the case (possibly bellhousing area?) that makes it different from the 98. I still havent figured out whats different in the 99+ though.

 

[imp]

Here are my questions:
1. yards are telling me the 98 is a 1 year only transmission, What makes this so, and is it possible to frankenstein any combinations together or modify another year to make it work? Your main difficulty will be getting electronics to work, properly, or maybe at all.

2. Im a pretty competent mechanic and Im considering attempting my first trans rebuild on this. Ive rebuilt plenty of motors and have enough experience I think I could manage it, Ive just never rebuilt one. Will I need any special tools? What if all I want to do is the bare minimum inside (reverse band, gaskets, seals, etc.)? Have you never disassembled an automatic? Some require special tools, some special gauges. Best would be to get the rebuild tech. info for this trans. You need to define WHICH trans. it is.

3. If I do attempt to rebuild it is there a "rebuild kit" available somewhere that has everything in one package or is there a list of parts I should order ahead of time? If it were me, I would attempt to find out if any stored "codes" exist first, to get an inkling of maybe what's wrong. With only reverse malfunctioning, it may just be something as simple as an electronic issue, or broken parts which engage reverse.

Thanks for any help ahead of time.

Good luck!

 

[Facimeor]

So with the gear selector in 1 I have positive forward but once I let off the gas going downhill it just freewheels.

I have a definate rotational clatter from the trans at idle.

I still have not dropped the pan, but I located a low mile replacement trans for the 98 so Im just going to swap the box. I plan to still take this one apart for a learning experience and if I can fix it I will just sell it to recoup some of the cost.


one other note of bad news is that I have 4WD issues in it as well that I didnt note when I bought it. In 4lo I get a binding/popping just driving forward...so looks like I have other repairs to track down as well. Since I will have the TC out for the trans swap I will crack it open and see what I can find.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

a 97 trans will work in a 98 and up (if its a SOHC). you are correct, there is a sensor in the case for a 97 that is not needed in the 98's and up. 97 you would need a 97 trans for that reason. 95-96 have a different trans as well. even some of the ohv trans will work. in the last two months i have done 3 trucks that i have bought to resell, all of them had trans problem. 99 sport, flared up, put a trans from a 00 in, worked no problems. 98 xlt, (red in color) no gears (sohc motor), used a 99 trans that had a ohv in front of it, and i just finished one last night, 98 xlt (blue in color), no revers, used a 97 trans. the only thing i did for both the 98's was use the wire harness from the original trans.
as for greedyfly, yup, he will last long here with that attitude. not everyone will see your posts right away, it may take some time until someone on here knows the answer.

 

[Facimeor]

ahh, ok that makes sense now. Even though I had the right info I had it backwards in my brain thinking that I needed a 98 only trans. My confusion stemmed from the fact that I also have a 97XL withwith issues. The 97 is the one that is year specific, and a 98 wont work because it doesnt have the sensor location. GOT IT! Thanks for the clarification.


EDIT: The replacement Ive located is supposedly low miles (78K). Anyone reading this think I should plan to do a VB upgrade/retrofit while its out anyway?


as for the other subject. Young people are impatient. I can be if Im in a time crunch, but Im not that young anymore. Also, as a veteran of many many forums Ive found that most every question has already been asked and answered. If you look long and hard enough you will find it. I already accept the fact before I post a question that Im the one being lazy, so its hard to get mad at someone else.

 

[Facimeor]

not many answers coming from this site but I'll ask anyway:

Its my own fault for not knowing what I was looking at but the trans I just bought apprently is a 4R55E (I see the differences in the bellhousing). So I did some looking and Im currently under the impression that internally, except for the VB, the 4R is identical mechanically to the 5R. So my question is, wouldnt it be possible to swap the bellhousing and VB from my 5R into the 4R and make it work?

 

[Facimeor]

This seems more like a diary, lol.

So, since Im not getting any replies, I continued to search and now know the question I asked above is answered with a simple NO!

That bad news was followed with more bad news. I dropped the pan and took a look under the reverse servo and the band is indeed broken. The tab that is supposed to get pushed by the servo is missing entirely or rotated out of the way (it was a good thing I had the 4R handy to compare what I was looking at. No quick fix there either.

guh! I guess the next step is to pull the 5R out and start tearing it down to see if I can manage my own rebuild on it. Can't hurt to try.

 

[Facimeor]

Ive decided after looking at a step by step tear down of the 5R that Im going to do a bare minimum "refresh" on mine. It really doesnt look all that hard to do. What Im planning on doing is putting some dowels on stands so that I can stack every piece the right direction as it comes out. Replace wear items and soft parts and the broken band and reassemble. I have the advantage of having driven the trans and know that it doesnt have any flare issues and all forward gears engage properly so it should just be a simple matter of replacing whats broken.

Now if I can just figure out where to and what to order for a refresh, I'll be ready to go.

 

[ragga]

Greets,

I am new to tranny work myself.... so I am not sure if I am correct on this, but did you say you had movement in man 1?

I am not sure about the newer electronic versions, but i thought that in the A4LD...their predecesor...that man1 and rev both used the low/reverse band?

If that is true in your trans, and you did have man 1... I would think that would mean that the band is operating in man 1?

A pressure check can be helpful for diagnosis, Glacier wrote an excellent sticky on it:

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117998

Now, this is all based on what little I think I have learned about the A4LD.... I have a band application chart that I got from Brooklyn Bay's list of useful links, if you haven't looked there, you might find some good info there:

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1439158&postcount=17

If you had the application specs for your trans, you can try and eliminate the things that are shared with reverse, and working in the other gears?

In the A4LD the high clutch is engaged in OD 3&4 , and in D 3, as well as reverse if I understand correctly....so I would think that if you had the OD 3&4, and D 3 gears that would mean that the high clutch is operating?

The Low/Reverse servo and band are shared with man 1, so if you had that I would think it would mean that the band and servo were operating...if I am not mistaken..leaving VB issues , gasket tear, improper torque on VB bolts, stuck valve(s), etc....but if you cant see the shiny spot on the band when you look up into the low/reverse bore, that doesn't sound good either....if it's not broken, just out of place... I have heard of some people being able to relocate it without dropping trans.... working with a stiff piece of wire, or dental pick etc, through the bottom....

You probably have already seen this info but check this thread, towards bottom is TSB that might address your issue...if you have man1, but have a 2-3 flare in addition to no engine braking...

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127091

Anyways, I don't know if any of this helps you....but I wish you Luck with solving your issue!

Respects
Ragga

 

[Facimeor]

I have Man1 but no engine braking in man 1.
Comparing the 4R I have sitting here, There should be a ramp or pad one the reverse/low band that the reverse servo presses against (to engage the band I suppose). Using a screwdriver up through the servo hole on the 4R I get springy resistance, on the 5R there is simply nothing to engage. Whether its broken or simply out of place I dont know.

I didnt take the VB off last night after I removed the reverse servo and saw that. I just assumed it was screwed and needed to come out so I put the pan back in place and a couple bolts in it just to keep it sealed up and called it a day. I think today I will pull the VB and inspect it and get another look at the reverse band. Perhaps its out of position, but I honestly dont see how I could get it back in position with such limited access.

 

[Facimeor]

So I dropped the VB and got a little better look at the reverse band. The ramp that that servo pushes against is actually there, the whole band is just rotated away and slightly forward. It doesnt actually appear to me now that the band itself is broken but simply out of place. Ive read of others managing to fish it back in place but does anyone have any experience with that?

Having not been inside one before I dont even know what would be normal and where things fit together.


(Im not really expecting much help here, but if anyone has any thing at all to add I would definately appreciate it.)

 

[Facimeor]

Nope, Its broken for sure. This one is going to have to come out.

 

[ragga]

Sorry to hear that! The chart I was looking at definitely shows that low/reverse band applied when in Man 1, so I thought it would not work with a broken band....in case you want to see the chart I found it in Brooklyn Bays useful links in his signature....it is under #69...transgos specification chart for A4LD:

http://www.explorerforum.com/photopost/data/503/A4LD_specification_chart_from_Transgo_.JPG

Maybe you can do a rebuild while you are in the case anyways....since it's all the way at the bottom;(

Respects,
Ragga

 

[Facimeor]

nope, this is a "flip car", so every penny counts. I will be doing the VB TSB update while Im in there, but the only hard part I hope to have to replace will be the band.


While trying to fish the band around to see if it was just out of place I managed to see the broken end of the middle strap of the band, right where the servo is supposed to engage it. I confirmed what I was looking at was identical to this picture i found on the ranger forums:

I could even see that little ridge right before the break through the case. With any luck I'll have the trans out and parts ordered before the end of the day, do teardown oever the weekend and be ready to put it back together early next week.

 

[Facimeor]

Might as well make this a diary of the process since I went ahead and dove in head first like I always do.

So, it took me a little over 6 hours to get the trans out of the vehicle. Part of the problem was that everything was stuck fast and the exhaust was pretty rusty. Rather than making more work for myself down the road by having to pull manifolds and drill broken studs I took my time, used plenty of Blaster and worked all my exhaust bolts out without breaking anything. It was quite a relief actually.

After that it was fairly routine but still it seemed like everything took extra effort to free up for removal. It doesnt help I dont have a lift and Im working on cold concrete with a near 50yo body, but...she came out!

That was yesterday, so today I cleaned up the outside of the trans. Easy off oven cleaner FTW! I then mounted it to an engine stand, an idea I got from the explorer forums and set to taking it apart:

I dedicated a work area and table to the job so I could keep everything in order, clean and organized. I have pretty good light in this spot as well.

So skip ahead to most of the day taking my time, being careful to note how everything came apart and which was was up...I came to the reason for this repair, the broken reverse band. Ive seen this exact same failure on others pictures. Seems like a weakpoint, but what do you expect at 300K miles.
The tab that the reverse servo pushes on to constrict the reverse band was broken off.

At the end of the day, this is where I stood, transmission torn comepltely down, everything bagged and/or tagged and all I can do now is wait for my rebuild kit to arrive. (note the laptop for the teardown manual on hard drive for assistance as needed). Man I love technology.

The guts of the beast. Everything looked really good coming out.

Parts should arrive early next week.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

hats off to you. i dont think i could dive into one of those. too many parts!

 

[Facimeor]

It really wasnt as scary as I expected it to be. All of my bushings and seals look excellent so I dont plan to have to do anything that needs a press to put back in. All in all, had I had the parts here I could have torn it down and rebuilt it easily in a day. The shops that charge $2000-$2500 for this job are ####ing organized crime.

The shop I asked about repairing this trans said at least $1000 just to replace the reverse band even if I brought them the transmission. I intend to drive into that shop when this is done and show the owner that transmission repairs are not pixie dust and magic rings. Anyone with half a brain and a manual can do this. The rebuild on this will cost me less than $200 total.

 

[ragga]

Great Job!
From what I can see in pics everything looks very clean.....you have some of the newer parts that I saw in Glaciers tutorial with the newer trans...center support w/ needle bearing etc. , You have OD drum at the back with star washer in it...is there any wear on edges of "castle teeth that that washer fits in, or on the teeth of the star washer itself? Also check the bottom of the input shell where it rides on thrust washer atop reverse planetary for wear....they are common prob areas I think , I know mine had issues there but I have a feeling yours has had lots less miles... ;-)

Respects,
Ragga