A4LD Front Seal

[BrooklynBay]

Glacier, whenever I see a post about the front pump seal leaking, it always mentions the A4LD. Aren't other bell housings like the C3, 4R, and 5R pretty much the same? I didn't see anybody post this problem with those.

 

[Glacier991]

Good Q. remember the C-3 didn't have the OD, and the pump setup was a little different as I understand. That said, I have never seen a C-3. Nor a tyrannoasuarus rex.

The 4R55 and 5R55 need pump alignment tools and use the same tool as the A4LD. The 5R55W/S and N use something different... but you make a good point.... we hear less about seals.... a part of that is because of a redesigned bellhousing fluid pathway.... If you haven't.... read Project Frankentranny... it discusses this in detail. Me, having learned on the A4LD, I am super conscious about concentricity between the pump and bell..... not a bad thing.

I am flattered that Rick (the site Admin) named me the Tranny guru... but folks I am just like you. I am not some transmission genius with thousands of tranny rebuilds behind me. I work, I read, I learn and I build... sometimes things work out better than expected, sometimes worse. I do know the A4LD pretty well.

I am having fun, and I am learning. I want you all to do the same.

 

[BrooklynBay]

Maybe it would be a good idea to make an upgrade to the A4LD along these lines to either drill out that extra fluid pathway, or just use a 5R bell housing if at all possible. What do they use to align the front pump on the 5R55S/W/N? How is that pump/bell housing different than the one used on the 5R55E?

 

[Glacier991]

I sometimes drill out the return fluid path and wait for them to do my bell separately, although he advises the closer tolerance makes that unnecessary. The 4R and 5R bells need the matching pumps, and you start into project frankentranny working backwards. I do not yet know if you can use a 4R/5R bell, pump and OD drum and STOP there.... it is kind of like dominoes. The 5R55W and S and N use a unitary case, no separate bellhousing. Do there is no bellhousing bushing on those.

 

[BrooklynBay]

According to Project Frankentranny, Brian recommends the 4R bell housing, since the 5R is too much different. He also said that those other bell housings lubricated the bushing a lot better, which would explain why they last longer. They had O-rings on the pump gears, and a different type of bearing where the OD section is. This would also improve on friction, and heat build up in that area.

 

[BrooklynBay]

I sent WWW.Precision-Technologies.Com an email with a few questions, and just got back some interesting information from them that I would like to post. He said that he is now considering posting them on their website! Here is the email:

Thanks for getting back to me. I saw different listings for different types of bushings (oversize, brass, bronze, etc.). What type do you install?

We use a Sonnax 56001X bushing. It was made with .020” to come out of the bore. It was made specifically for this problem.



Does the 4R44E/55E, and 5R55E also suffer from the bushing problem?

The A4LD housings run out within a certain range. Each housing varies within that range. The 4R/ 5R housings usually run out towards the maximum of the range. They are really worse than the A4LD.



I think that the bell housings were made in a similar way. How long do you estimate the repair that your shop makes on the bell housing will last compared to a new one that came from Ford?

I machine the housing about 10 times better than it came new. It seems that the transmissions themselves just don’t seem to have the same life span when rebuilt as they did from the factory. That is the difference between “remanufactured” and “rebuilt”. Remanufactured means that everything in something was restored back to new condition. Rebuilt means that all major wearing components where replaced and everything else is still within reason to work properly. I can tell you that the sealing will outlast the transmission. I have seen some of my housings come back after years of use. They are still within tolerance and evenly worn on the bore.



Is there a warranty?

I have all the confidence in the world with my housings. There is one variable that I can’t prevent. Sometimes those torque converters are defective. They will heat up tremendously. They then burn up and take the bushing with them. If this happens to one of my housings, I will repair it for the cost of shipping plus $4 which is the cost of the bushing itself. I do ask that customers initially have the pump installed professionally using the proper tools.



Your website said that the cost is $40, but your previous email said $50. Was there a mistake?

The website has been up for 5 years. I have tried to access it to make changes, but I must not be doing something right because I can’t get to it.

We went from $40 to $50 about 3 ½ years ago. What happened was that originally if we had to machine the pump side we charged $25 extra. When locals brought in a housing we could determine if it would be needed. We then branched out and now send housings all over the USA and a few in Europe for the Air Force. When customers like you send in their housing. They like a fixed price. I was not going to tell customers they needed to send me an extra $25 for pump side repairs. So we figured up the average cost we incur from pump side machining and the rise in other costs and determined that we would charge $50 and if the pump side needed attention we would just do it at no extra cost. Sometimes when the torque converter burns up it damages the pump side. We can fix that.





Is your company part of Precision that manufactures rebuild kits?

Nope. We are not at all affiliated with them. I have spoken with Precision torque converters about their neck sizes. We tighten up on the bore size to get a better fit to the torque converter. I was verifying that this would work well with their converters. I have heard very good things about their converters. They are very reliable.



I'm in Brooklyn, NY 11210. What would shipping come out to (round trip)?

Since you will be sending it to me first, I will only need to send it back. The cost to send it to a business is $10.06. The price to a residence is $11.81. I can send it to you with a return shipping label. You may find that your shipping cost to me is higher than mine to you. I do a lot of business a year with UPS. I get a good price. If you have other housings you want to send later, I can include the return shipping label. The cost to a business is $17.92 and residential is $19.67. You just put your next housing in the box and put the return label on. The UPS guy will take it from there.







I posted your website on WWW.ExplorerForum.Com. A lot of people there repair their own transmissions, and are in need of this service from reading, and answering their questions about their transmission problems.

Word of mouth has been my best method of growth. Around here the transmission shops are all friends. If you give one of them a bad deal then they will all know what you did by the end of the week. Like wise if you do a good job they will do the same.



I was wondering if the original C3 also had this problem, since I've never heard of other transmissions having such a common problem with front seal leaks.

I don’t really know the answer for that one. I have a housing here that mounts the same way as the A4LD but it is mostly round with a pocket for the starter. The bushing in it ran out from the seal. It uses the same bushing. I guess it does not have the same effect in whatever it is like the A4LD has.



From reading your last email, it seems that the bell housing should be shipped without the pump, and I have to supply my own front seal when I get it back.

I will only need the housing by itself.

I encourage you to clean it real nice for me. Most of my business is with transmission shops. They send them to me cleaned so I don’t have to clean it and I reflect this in the price. I just need it clean enough where I can handle it without making a big mess. I don’t like grit getting into my very expensive precision tools. I don’t carry any front seals. Since I deal with transmission shops they have their own brand of seal they use and sealing chemical. I have heard that most do not use what comes in a rebuild kit. They prefer one from Ford. I think Ford has a better seal out now also.





You have a lot of good questions. I will have to do a Q+A forum and post this email for others. I will try to fix the website. The pictures of the shop are my original shop outside of when I was in my shed. The facility now is many times larger with CNC machinery. I have come a long way. I am a service disabled veteran and I am now going to go after some federal work as a service disabled veteran owned small business “SDVOSB”. I hope to expand from there. The housings will eventually drop off in time.

Thank again,

Troy Legner