A4LD No Reverse

[Carlos Osornio]

Would this be related at all with previous slipping symptoms it had experienced? I mean, the fact that it is stock in forward

 

[rdodd1024]

If the linkage had screwed up it could slip, as the linkage would be out of adjustment. Like he said, make sure all is ok there first. I have not been able to get to dissasembly yet. Soon, maybe tonight.

 

[Carlos Osornio]

Rebuild time, the shop took the tranny out and confirmed it needs to be rebuilt.
Any suggestions on how to beef this tranny up??

 

[rdodd1024]

Ok, so I got the tranny apart. Going in, everything looked pristine, even the bands had material on them and looked good. Then the reverse clutch and the planetary in front of that. That whole assembly had grenaded. It had torn itself apart. Everything, even the thrust washers all through it looked pristine, and had no real wear that I could see. Even the clutch plates looked good. What would cause it to grenade?

 

[Gopher]

sorry i just saw this post. Thats exactly what happened to me. I was going to say you grenaded u're plantary gear but you beat me to it. I lost first gear then lost reverse and had no neutral either.. I took it in and they told me i grenaded the planetary gear. Woohoo. The funny part was getting stuck in an ally. I had to have my dad come with our large jack and pick up the rear pumpkin and turn it around. Even better it was at 330 in the morn.

 

[rdodd1024]

So where can I get a pump alignment tool for a decent price for this thing? I do not want to spent over a hundred dollars for a damn alignment tool.

 

[rdodd1024]

A couple of other thoughts. The planetary in this thing is 6 pinion, and it has single wrap bands instead of the double wrap ones. Staking on input shaft seal looks like that was replaced also. The bell housing bolts did not really feel like they were torqued properly to me, and even though the torque setting for the valve body is so low, they did not feel tight enough either. I am going to follow the book on settings. Could they have left out a thrust washer or something to make it explode? I thought the 6 pinion were supposed to be a lot stronger. I have supposedly all the maintenance records for this truck and there was no mention of the tranny ever being done. The thrust washers and other wearing parts do not look like they had as much mileage as the truck does. The friction materials on the plates and bands look almost new.

 

[Glacier991]

double wrap was an early thing, since 92 they have all been single wrap. I am still pondering your failure mode.... lubrication (or lack thereof) comes to mind as an early thought, still thinking....

 

[rdodd1024]

I think I got that original would have been double wrap from the diaries, where it was recomended to replace the double wrap with the single wrap band. Probably. Lubrication came to mind first, as that is what the one planetary looked like - like a total lack of lube. I have been looking carefully at every lube pathway, and I am starting to understand how the thing operates (if you know how it works, you can fix it), I have a much better understanding of the tranny now, but I am real concerned with the cause of failure. The bolts were probably torqued right, as 30 ft. lbs. is not much, but some of the pieces look like replacements, etc. I have gone through the ATSG manual extensively, and I am reading through you guy's rebuild diaries thoroughly, so that I understand it totally. The valve body looked excellent, everything moves as it should, and I could swear some of the springs look like some in the kits, color and all. It is just in too good of shape to have that much mileage on it. It would not surprise me though. I rebuilt the engine at 183,000 just because the freeze plugs were going and I found no measurable wear in the engine. I did a full nice rebuild just because, but I mean even no measurable barrel taper. Everything measured within new specs, and I am freaky about measuring everything. I wanted to do the tranny at that time, just because, but I did not have the funds, or time, and it worked perfectly at that time. The only leakage this tranny has had was when the modulator went out, and it was sucking fluid there. I did not run the tranny low, I am paranoid about that. One thing comes to mind. I have seen other explorers that someone runs low, and the first sign you have gone to far is that you lose reverse first, if the fluid is too low. Would it have been possible that someone ran it too low, and that would have caused the lubrication problem? The modulator was bad when I got it.

 

[Glacier991]

was the oil dam in place ?

 

[rdodd1024]

Yeah, it looked fine. No cracks, no splits, no errors

 

[rdodd1024]

I am just about done inspecting parts. Pretty good list. The Fwd clutch took pretty good beating. 2 of the friction plates had almost no material on them. The best in the bunch had about half the thickness of new. The other two clutches had anywhere from 1/2 a thousandth to a thousandth wear. Still looked good. The rear and frt planetaries are toasted, the thrust washer in front of the rear one was pretty toasted. On the forward clutch, the spring retainer and associated parts destroyed themselvs. Finding all the parts has been fun so far. I have just a few to find now, and my buddy at the tranny shop can probably help me out there.

 

[rdodd1024]

I got most of my parts, have done a dry assembly on the bench, and have found a couple of more things. I found another thrust washer that was not installed, and the spring in the 3-4 valve in the valve body was not there. I am not impressed with whoever did this tranny before. I think I have all the bases covered, and hope to finish it next weekend. I decided on a couple of more upgrades, and my parts are up to about $900.

 

[Glacier991]

Well let me know if you need the toolsets. Sounds like you have it well in hand.

 

[rdodd1024]

A4ld

Ok, so with Glacier991's help, and a lot of work, everything is back together, back in the truck, and it runs. I am having some slow shift, shifts fine at low to moderate acceleration. I am suspecting the valve body, and plan to do a line pressure test to confirm my feelings. Man, it sure feels good going into gear. Not harsh, but quick, and solid. It is much more powerfull than it was. I had some trials doing this, and boy can you get fast at assembling the stack. You get to know it pretty good. The valve body was a pain, but seemed to be free and ok, but I still suspect it. I will post a full accounting of what happened in this rebuild when I have time. All in all, it was not that difficult, just time consuming, (especially if you don't have much time), and there was a lot to learn. I knew very little about automatic transmissions before this one, had only done two, one simple (powerglide) and one not (4 speed honda). Of course the tranny shop guys said I would never get the honda to work because they are so difficult to get right - again mainly valve body problems, and that one did have sticking spools that were way fun to fix. The lady that owned the car kept driving and slammed the accelerator, even though it would not shift out of second, and blew the motor. I got elected to fix it for her by my wife (ha ha). I never believe anyone when they say you can't do something. If someone else figured out how to do it - then I can too. I spent quite a bit of time reading the diaries by Glacier991, and others, looking at their experiences, looking for insight. You know, those guys were not "experts" on this tranny when they started, either. They sure are now. There is one hell of a lot of information on this forum.

 

[Glacier991]

You know, those guys were not "experts" on this tranny when they started, either.

BINGO!!

You sound like my kind of guy when you say "If someone else could figure out how to do it, so can I". That is exactly my philosophy. The right tools make a world of difference obviously.... but you hit the nail on the head when you point out that when I started on the A4LD I was not expert on it at all. I sure wasn't!! And... I won't claim some exalted "expert" status now necessarily, but I daresay I know it probably about as well as anyone in any trans shop. And so do you, NOW.

Keep us posted, maybe a thread on your experience would be a good incentive to others. Thanks for posting the results !

ps: As for your Honda, it it was FWD you, like me, would probably work on a RWD any day over a FWD. My FWD was a Dodge A413 out of a Shadow.

 

[rdodd1024]

Yeah, it was. I had just rebuilt a 2.6 in a Chrysler New Yorker, low mileage, did not look forward to pulling it out. The engine\transmission package comes out all together. Fairly easy, if you know how, and way fun. It only took two hours from on the lift to installed and driving down the street. The Honda was harder, and I had to rebuild that engine too. It was difficult doing a Front wheel drive trans. I would take rwd any day, even with a transfer case. Suckers are heavy, but with proper tools, you can do anything. Take your time, if something doesn't look right, it is not. Figure it out, logically. Tell anyone that thinks you will never get done - that it is going too slow - to go home, it is not your day job. At least you can do the job. Gee, can they? NO. I love the look on someone's face that doubts you, and you drive up in the truck. That look is priceless. The want to look underneath, and they say, "Gee, it looks brand new!" I say, "Really? What did you expect?" And it is just like I said before - If you know how it works, you can fix it, because you will understand what is not working. Figure out how it works, before you try to figure out why it is not working. That is one place the diaries come in handy, because they can show you how it is properly assembled, and gives you an idea of some things that fail.

 

[rdodd1024]

A4ld

UPDATE - I installed a new VB tonight. I checked out everything, and there was very little in the filter or on the pan magnet. Only breakin stuff. The change in how it shifts was amazing. It now shift normal in 1-2-3. I still don't have Od or torque converter lockout, but have made arraingements to use a breakout box and trans tester. That will isolate it. The amazing thing is the amount of power the thing has now - it screams! I will post other results from the other tests.