ABS - Who needs it?

[Rudy602]

Is anyone besides some corporate lawyer at ford impressed by ABS? Anyone besides me consider them dangerous and wish they were never invented or at least only offered as an option for the driving impaired. When I step on the brakes, I want brakes! I don't want some ABS module telling me "sorry, no brakes for you! too slippery! I'll decide for myself when and how hard I step on the brakes. I'm sure it's one of those things that looks good on paper but doesn't work in real life.

 

[IZwack]

ABS rocks - wish I had it in my Civic.

 

[storlied]

It works for what it's supposed to.. to an extent.. it depends on what you're doing really... I have a kill switch for my ABS... I turn it off when I'm off-road in certain conditions, and right now I have it turned off because my wheel speed sensors started acting up and kicking ABS on under normal braking on dry pavement. [The hell I want that... oh man.. haha... I'm glad I have a kill switch, maybe it's something you could look into?]

 

[Pensa]

I don't like ABS for a lot of reasons, but the thing I dislike most is I hear when you hit the brakes hard and let up the pedal will then go to the floor if you push on the pedal again. If that is true then I consider them dangerous.

 

[storlied]

Mine doesn't go to the floor? It just doesn't take my actions into account very well.. you can kinda force the brakes when ABS is activated by pushing really hard but I wouldn't suggest it.

Honestly, for anyone who doesn't like it... you can turn it off. Just be aware of the consequences if you get into an accident with it off... [it is a safety feature after all] I'll only turn mine off under certain conditions/malfunctions. It can help you a Lot in the winter, specially if you have to dodge something... but I personally try to stay off the brake when I have to pull an emergency maneuver as it's just adding another force to fight off if the situation is bad enough... if that made any sense..

Maybe you guys could point out personal experiences where it didn't help you? There's always a way to take a situation more efficiently.

The biggest point of ABS is to keep you in control when you have to steer during braking on slippery surfaces, or loss of traction in general. Try avoiding something with ABS off, I guarantee you'll find that your rear end will like to slip right out of your control sending you into a sideways skid, that can go for braking in a straight line also. And if that doesn't happen, you'll definitely find that during the lockup steering is gonna be pointless.. you're gonna keep going exactly where the truck wants to slide.

You can argue that if you just pump the brakes or hold them at the farthest point before traction loss instead of depending on ABS but the truth of the matter is ABS is 10x quicker than you can pump those brakes or even react. Even if you are trying to out smart the ABS, I highly doubt you'll have enough time in an emergency to re-adjust your braking in time, while still trying to focus on your next move/trying to control the vehicle.

 

[Pensa]

Maybe you guys could point out personal experiences where it didn't help you? There's always a way to take a situation more efficiently.

Honestly I have never been in a position with ABS where I needed them. I assume they work since the light doesn't come on but I couldn't swear to it.

I am from Indiana originally and I am well aware of the hazards of driving on Ice and Snow. I managed to do it quite well without ABS. To me ABS is like cruise control, I am not comfortable with it and don't use it. The difference is with ABS you don't have the option not to use it.

 

[Rudy602]

How does it help if you have to dodge something? I've tried standing on them when it kicks in and I might as well have been adjusting the radio. Granted the 2nd gen explorers tend to come around on you if it's slippery and you're not in 4wd [or maybe even if you are]but I think that's more due to the high CG and narrow footprint. ABS may be 10 times quicker than me but dead is dead, I'll bet on me anyday. I've had problems with ABS in winter, on sand, I have never ever said, "Thank God for that ABS" - I have said on numerous occasions "God xxxx that ABS" I think front wheel drive and ABS go in the same category - good for the wife or daughter.

 

[IZwack]

As you guys know, ABS senses wheel speed via VSS. As such, it will react to a wheel that's about to slip way before the driver can - because even the greatest driver can only react once the wheel is already sliding - which is usually too late (and, just a quick review that the static coefficient of friction is much higher than slidding). And if we argue that we'll just not apply as much pressure to prevent slidding, then you are not using as much of the brake as you can and your stopping distance will be greater. And if we argue that we'll just pump the brake pedal manually, well the ABS modulator can pulse brake pressure much faster than any human foot.

Of course the ABS system was designed for stock vehicle configuration so if you throw on some 33" tires, then the ABS system doesn't opperate as well (if at all) because the larger moment arm of the tires.
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[section525]

Duh IZ. 90% of drivers are in the top 50% of drivers.

 

[wood1]

ABS is great and has saved many people from tragedy. I do however think that a kill switch or panic switch is a great idea. There are times that it kicks in and you just don't want it. Maybe a big red push button switch you can slap when you hit the brakes and it jsut keeps on rollin'

 

[safn1949]

Our big trucks have ABS on the tractor and the trailer,the stopping power is awesome.I have been driving trucks for a long time and the difference is truly amazing.

 

[Rudy602]

I'm all for ABS on every tractor/trailer, dump truck, motorcycle, or boat, but not on my daily driver, I've had too many near death experiences directly related to the ABS to give it the nod. I think it's fine as long as it never kicks in. I know all those coefficient of friction stats look good on paper but when you're heading for trouble and there's no brakes, it doesn't mean much.

 

[IZwack]

Some people drive tractor trailers and dump trucks as a daily driver. And coefficient of friction doesnt just look good on paper, it looks event better in real life - remember physics class when you looked at theoretical vs empirical coefficient of friction?

If you stomp on the brakes and the vehicle slows down very slowly, then there's a good chance that you are not going to do a better job under the same conditions because you are not going to modulate brake pressure much better than the ABS system in the snow (you cant even control the brakes independently on the front - the ABS can). You also can not see the wheels when they are going to lock up so you blind as far as telling whether or not a wheel is slipping. Yes there is some feedback through the brake pedal but thats already too late, the ABS would have stopped that wheel from locking up beforehand.

 

[Rudy602]

For an empirical example, if you come over the top of a hill that's covered in plowed snow and there's a busy intersection at the bottom of said hill, with no ABS I have no problem making the stop sign, at same speed with ABS I have no chance. Unless I reduce my speed substantially, it's gonna be trouble. I agree that ABS is good if you're gonna "stomp on the brakes" then that's what I meant when I said it was good for my wife or daughter since that's how they would probably respond to a difficult situation.

 

[IZwack]

Then maybe your ABS isnt working properly.

My Civic doesnt have ABS and I had to drive slower than when I drove an AWD Subaru and a 2WD Camry (both with ABS) in last winter's two blizzards.

 

[general x]

I've only had a vehicle equipped with ABS come on for me once and it scared the crap out of me. I figured the intended purpose of the ABS was to allow you to steer while you lightened up on the pedal and allowed the wheels to regain traction with the road surface, since mashing the pedal doesn't help as much with or without abs as gripping the road surface does. Personally I prefer no ABS and since it never works on any of the vehicles I own (Which all seem to come with the logic defying rear abs anyway!) I have been in slide situations and with my driving style I've been able to avoid accidents and I don't think ABS intruding would have helped me as much as being able to get a grasp of the situation and reacting to it (Yes, it's my problem, not the ABS's problem)

As far as big truck/trailer ABS goes, I can understand why they use ABS. It can be very difficult to modulate braking effort with air brakes since there is no real pedal feel comparable to hydraulic brakes not to mention pumping your brakes with the pedal in the cab will apply and release ALL brakes using quite a bit of air while the ABS modulators on effected and related axles will use less air by only releasing effected axles. They likely use less air as well but that last one is a guess

 

[Rudy602]

My ABS isn't working properly now for certain because the light came on the other day and the abs kicked in on dry pavement. Before this it only engaged in winter or soft sand. I am reluctant to spend a lot of time trying to fix something that I consider a hazzard to begin with. I may not be a "great" driver but apparently I've been doing it long enough so it's almost second nature, I'm real comfortable driving in any weather and I'm not intimidated by situations that arise provided I have the tools - like brakes. Maybe if I grew up with ABS I'd be programmed to accept that when you step on the brakes you don't necessarily slow down very much. I hope it's easier to fix than taking the bulb out of the inst. panel.

 

[Naasau]

Honestly, I am with the minority on this one. The ABS in first gen's isn't all that great. I've had mine kick on because of a bump in the road, or because I was performing a dodge maneuver, and on every occasion it has caused moderate to severe loss of control (this does not apply to more modern systems, which have a better system for engagement/disengagement and a much faster cycle time). On one instance my ABS only performed one cycle of release to my brakes then decided to not re-engage them at all; thank god for an empty field to my right, or that failure could have killed me, or the poor ******* who came to a sudden stop directly in front of me.

Also,once it is on and cycling, it stays on unless you release all pressure on the pedal then return it, which takes time and is therefore bad.

Storlied, how did you wire up a "disable" switch to your ABS? It would be damned handy to have the confidence that the brakes will behave exactly the same, every time, even if that means that I have to be a more attentive driver.

 

[silky]

Last winter they saved me!

Driving home from the cottage on cold day with light snow. Travelling about 80 km/h (50mph?), a guy turned left in front then stopped when he saw me about 70 feet down the road. I hit the brakes, steered onto the shoulder, and missed what could have been an ugly situation.

How could that have gone without abs? Well I hit the brakes and 1) slide right into him, 2) slide sideways and hit him, 3) slide off the road and flip over several time.

ya I think ABS is worth the annoyances it gives.

 

[Trolling]

ya I think ABS is worth the annoyances it gives.

True and its especially useful for drivers who cant regulate their braking. but I dont think vehicle ABS is an annoyance at all.. the way i see it, a car equipped with ABS is annoyed at the person sitting behind the wheel and how poor of a driver he/she is that the car has to help and it kick the ABS on to modulate the brakes to avoid an accident.

I've had my ABS kick in once when we were fooling around in the snow (had to stomp on the brakes really hard) and the other when i went over some REALLY rough road with potholes and everything and had to brake suddenly. But for the numerous times that i had to do an emergency maneuver and had to hit the brakes hard dodging NY, MD, Vegas and LA traffic, the ABS never kicked in on me.

And yes, I always stop before the lines on the intersection/stop sign without braking a mile away and my ABS is fully functional.