ABS - Who needs it?

[Rudy602]

If by hit the brakes you mean lock them up then maybe you're right. Were you in 4WD? What about just touching the brakes and going around him? Maybe no one could have pulled it off without ABS but what about how many times ABS causes accidents? You never had any close calls because it wouldn't stop? I'm not concerned with any annoyances, I'm concerned with accidents and bodily injury. I'd also like to know which wire Storlied tapped into for the kill switch. I really appreciate everyone's input on this no matter which side of the issue you like. Keep it coming, thanx

 

[Rudy602]

Just an additional note. untill my ABS light came on recently, I never had the ABS kick in on dry pavement. My problems with it are always in slippery conditions, ironic since that's what it's supposed to be for. I definately feel less safe driving with the ABS on in the winter.

 

[storlied]

To the person with ABS kicking on on dry pavement, replace your wheel speed sensors [front most likely] It can also be a sign of your hub assembly going out.

To the person interested in ABS kill switch, cut one of the wires coming from any of the speed sensors and put in a switch inline of the wire you just cut. You will have to re-start the truck to turn ABS back on. You will know it's shut off because the ABS light will come on.

You guys are dragging this out wayy too much. I'd rather have ABS kick in than have lockup... then those tires will slide anywhere the weight will carry them. It's far from perfect [in our trucks anyways] but it will respond and hit the breaks 10x faster than anything you can do with that break pedal on a traction loss situation. You just feel helpless because it takes your brakes from your control, which is understandable... but like I said before.. a kill switch is an option here.

But before you even think about it, remember ABS is intended as a safety device and if you get into an accident without working ABS because of YOU.. then you will be in serious trouble. I think the only good application for an ABS kill switch is off-road and during ABS malfunction due to the speed sensors. Imagine coming down a big hill of gravel or whatever... but there's a river at the bottom [or something, use your imagination] Turning the ABS off can allow your wheels to dig into the ground.. which MIGHT cause you to become stuck [never happened to me] but it's better than ending up in the river because your brakes were taken from you by the ABS.

ABS Will help you avoid obstacles on slippery surfaces, lockup and try to avoid something... it's not gonna happen.

 

[unclemeat]

ABS only comes on when too much brake is being used. If you do not apply too much brake for the situation, then ABS does not engage. ABS will stop your vehicle in a shorter distance than manual brake application, and you can steer while braking. The kentic verses the static coefficent of friction does not dramatic and static is beter than kinetic.

That being said, ABS take a lot of the fun and control out of driving.

 

[storlied]

Haha.. definitely I would always make sure to hit my kill switch before entering this ice track.. can't really drift or break traction for a turn. Well, then again.. the AWD is great for that kinda stuff because you can force yourself into a controllable skid with how it throws the power.. so much fun.

 

[Mbrooks420]

ABS saves lives. Bottom line. It's not just a wild concept that some suit came up with, and implemented to boost sales. If your ABS has almost killed you several times either

A. You are being way over-dramatic.
B. You are slamming on the brakes way too hard.
C. Your antilock system is messed up.

ABS is like fuel injection. It gets a bad rap from "purists". "I'd much rather have a carb" Ridiculous.

Very few people are "good" drivers. It's not all about you. I'd rather have the person behind me on a snowy road have ABS. Same for the guy coming at me in the other lane.

 

[Rudy602]

Dont confuse the real bottom line with your own bottom line - There is no bottom line. While ABS has probably helped people who have locked up their brakes in a fear response to a difficult driving situation. I would bet it is responsible for causing more accidents than it has prevented. A scientific study [the backbone of all this theoretical/empirical/static/kinetic/coefficient of friction "stuff"] of this thread would show that allthough ABS "rocks" it has only helped one member who apparantly locked up his brakes and could still manage to avoid hitting a not moving vehicle - while several people say they would rather have a dependable braking system at alll times, even if they had to think for themself and not just slam on the brakes and have a computer chip do their thinking for them. Granted it looks good on paper, just not in real life.

 

[Mbrooks420]

ABS has helped me several times, and I am the best driver on the face of the planet. I'd guess that as many as 70% of drivers suck. I want them all to have ABS. So I count at least three in this thread. It doesn't just look good on paper. Do you really thing some engineer drew up ABS and it went right onto the cars? Do you not think there was millions of dollars spent testing ABS on various real world style test tracks?

I'm sure it has not caused more accidents than it has avoided. If there was any basis to this there would be a class action lawsuit against all auto makers. If there is even a shred of evidence behind this, there would be a lawsuit.

What do you think of airbags?

 

[JDraper]

Dont confuse the real bottom line with your own bottom line - There is no bottom line. While ABS has probably helped people who have locked up their brakes in a fear response to a difficult driving situation. I would bet it is responsible for causing more accidents than it has prevented. A scientific study [the backbone of all this theoretical/empirical/static/kinetic/coefficient of friction "stuff"] of this thread would show that allthough ABS "rocks" it has only helped one member who apparantly locked up his brakes and could still manage to avoid hitting a not moving vehicle - while several people say they would rather have a dependable braking system at alll times, even if they had to think for themself and not just slam on the brakes and have a computer chip do their thinking for them. Granted it looks good on paper, just not in real life.

Sorry, this is incorrect. ABS does improve braking. It has been proven to reduce stopping distances and increase control over a vehicle during emergency braking/maneuvers. Your brain cannot sense wheel slip and modulate the brakes to provide optimum braking without losing control. Your brain cannot allow one wheel to continue at maximum braking while modulating another to keep it from skidding. Are there certain situations where ABS may not be desirable? Yes, but for the vast majority of high braking situations, it is far better at keeping control and stopping than you can do.

Go do some real research on the science behind ABS and you'll find that it's a very good invention and vehicles with ABS are safer than those without ABS.

 

[Rudy602]

My only experience with airbags happened when I was doing about 70 mph in the fast lane of a 4 lane interstate highway and a cement truck tossed a tennis ball sized rock at me. I guess it came dislodged from between his dual wheels. I didn't even realize I had an airbag at the time since I bought that car used and never really thought about it. In any case when that rock made contact with the front bumper - you guessed it- boom! Now I'm doing 70 with a huge bag in my face and a car full of smoke and aerosolized powder. Ever had an airbag go off in your face? - even if you weren't doing 70? The smoke and powder act like pepper spray and choke you - a great thing while cruising the interstate. Now I hope that wasn't way over dramatic and I don't expect you to change your view of the world or even ABS or airbags, but how many accidents have airbags caused? How many people have been injured or killed by airbags- google it if you really want to know. In a lawsuit crazed society like ours, as soon as the technology exists for something like ABS, auto manufacturers would be deemed negligent for not putting it in. I think crash helmets and full harnesses along with fireproof suits should be mandatory, don't you? How about an ejector seat?

 

[Rudy602]

I find it interesting to hear about what has been proven, and brake modulation, and all and if I could I would post some empirical data for you, a picture of an explorer after a close encounter with ABS.

 

[Mbrooks420]

Air bags have certainly saved way more lives than they have ended. NOTHING is a free ride. It's all about odds. People choke on food all the time. Should there be no food? The chances of your air bag killing you are pretty moot. The chances of it saving your life are much higher. Have seat belts killed people? Absolutely. My mom was in a rollover where her car flipped end for end, and landed on a boulder. Crushed the whole roof in, and she ended up in the cargo area. If she had been wearing her seat belt, she would have been killed. Guess what? Seat belts are still a good idea. Oh, and she wears her seatbelt all the time now.

Fire suits and helmets? Naw, too hot, and helmets drastically reduce field of vision. Ejection seats? Sign me up.

Maybe you should google how many people have been SAVED by airbags. Wow. Who would have thought? Oh yeah, almost everybody. You are in the vast minority. All the statistics disagree with you. Let me guess you like carbs and 8 tracks as well?

 

[JDraper]

Again..Go do some scientific research on how ABS improves braking. You'll find that vehicle stopping distances are much shorter with ABS than without ABS. You'll also find that it's much easier to keep a car under control when having to do emergency evasive maneuvers in a car that has ABS than with a car that doesn't have ABS.

An interesting side note, Formula 1 banned ABS systems. Why? Not because they were unsafe or the drivers were safer without them, it was because the ABS systems could significantly outperform the drivers and took it from a driver's race to a technology race.

 

[Rudy602]

You missed my point. There are two sides to everything there is no clear bottom line, just like airbags save - airbags kill, If you read my earlier posts I said that I thought ABS is a good thing for some people, just like front wheel drive. And no, I'm not a big fan of carbs but I'm not going to retrofit my backhoe, tractor, or dump and neither am I in the market for any 8-tracks, though I do have some fond memories of them.

 

[Rudy602]

Scientific research shows that I should be taking 18 kinds of prescription medication no matter how dangerous they are. I am far less interested in scientific research than my own personal experience. Who am I gonna believe, scientific research or my lying eyes?

 

[Rudy602]

Formula one doesn't race on snow but if they did, they still wouldn't use ABS because they know how to drive, they dont just stomp on the brake and wait for the car to drive for them.

 

[Mbrooks420]

Everything kills. It's a numbers thing. If they save 100 people, and even kill as many as 90, it's still a net gain. And by NO means are the numbers even remotely close.

People drown. Do you drain the lake? I've got a new cause I'm going to spearhead. Peanuts. Google how many people die from peanuts. I think we should wipe them from the face of the earth. Other plants are dangerous, too? Damn. Bring on the herbicide.

 

[Rudy602]

It probably is a numbers thing but I think it's more of a lowest common denominator thing. I'm stuck with ABS because some dumb blonde with a rack size that dwarfs her IQ needs to be able to drive to wall mart for more nail polish.

 

[Mbrooks420]

It's way more than some blond. Most guys don't drive much better. If you don't want your ABS, and it's such a big problem, disable. Seems pretty simple. Maybe you could even sleep at night.

 

[Rudy602]

This was never meant to be a pissing contest, we all know that unreasonable people can disagree, but reasonable people can disagree without being disagreeable. We've all heard the research and statistics but this forum allows for real world experience to be shared, not just some statistics that can be manipulated to say whatever whoever has the most to gain from them want them to say. I wish everyone who has ever had any experience with their ABS would take the time to explain what they experienced - not to be on one side or the other, but just to say what they experienced for themself. It seems the best way to learn is to share personal experience, not statistics. I must admit to a fondness for the occasional sarcasm, though so please lets not let it get too dry. Thanks again