thanks bob, for some reason i don't get a email when someone post on this thred only....anyway, i spoke to soon on vague...but i did say it was exactly what i needed though, lmao...WOOOOHOOOO, it's fixed....i spent an hour or so removing enough splash fender to find both horns, checked the wiring from horn to relay box, and traced from the new clock spring to the relay box....what has been driving me crazy is i know i had power at the horn pad and i know that hitting the horn pad completes the circuit....it doesn't help seeing some previously cut and other wires spliced but anyway, i know my system is good...oh, and the whole problem???? a stupid relay, the horn relay, lmao...but i sincerely appreciate the drawing and help...i'm the kind of guy who would have spent days tracing wires till i knew where everything went, roflmao