Amp Location

[Divemaster191307]

I have a 2007 Explorer, with Nav and the 3rd row seat, but I want to upgrade the audio setup... Problem is: where do you guys put your amp(s)? There is no room under either the front driver or passenger seats, since they're both powered. There is pretty much no room under the driver-side 2nd row seats and very little room under the passenger-side 2nd row seats. The 3rd row is almost always down, but I'd rather not remove it. I often have wet equipment in the cargo area, so that's not really a good location either... Options?

 

[deernet]

Is there not room to put it behind the third row, or on the side wall?

 

[Divemaster191307]

Yes, there is "room" back there, but I guess I was kind of looking for creative ideas that people have used. For example, I haven't checked the area where the OEM sub is. Is there room in there for something more substantial? If push comes to shove, I may have to build some type of protective enclosure, but I am trying to avoid (I am basically a little lazy!)...

 

[deernet]

I don't know what kind of amp your planning on using, but if its anything substantial I wouldn't put it in a closed up area. I would go for somewhere where it can get some airflow.

 

[HCCA 250]

The best bet when trying to retain the original utility of the vehicle, is the Alpine PDX amps. They are about as small as you can get, and they are stackable. You can get them to mount under the seats in the second row. At least, on my '02 EB Xp, they will. Most other amps will be too large. Actually, a single PDX 4.150, or PDX 4.100 could power two front speakers, and a sub in the rear. Or, add another PDX 1.600. Driver four speakers in the doors, and the 1.600 would take care of the sub.

Also, there is no room behind the right, rear panel. I removed my factory sub to try to find some room, but, alas, not enough space for an amp. If you DO NOT have aux. climate control, JL Audio makes a stealth box that will fit on the left side. http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_stealthbox_make.php?make_id=54&model_id=304
Just an idea, but would keep things looking pretty stock, and you would retain the full use of the cargo area.

 

[Divemaster191307]

I don't know what kind of amp your planning on using, but if its anything substantial I wouldn't put it in a closed up area. I would go for somewhere where it can get some airflow.

Well, I am not a 20-something who needs 5 million watts, so I'm looking more at something like 100W per channel or somewhere around there. I guess I can leave off dealing with the sub for now, and just put a 4-channel under the 2nd row passenger seat for the front and rear door speakers...

 

[HCCA 250]

Well, I am not a 20-something who needs 5 million watts

Actually, the way physics works, the human ear only perceives a 3 db increase in sound. To get a 3 db increase in sound, you need to double the power. Speakers are rated at 1 watt/1 meter, for sensetivity. Each doubling of power is a 3db increase. Increasing 1 watt, to 2 watts is 3 db increase, 2W, to 4W= 3db increase. 4W, to 8W= 3db increase, etc...

So, an increase from 100 watts, to 200 watts would be needed to increase 3 db. That's JUST noticable. 100 watts to 150 watts is only going to give your speakers a tiiiiny little bit more punch....maybe.

So, if you are wanting to forgo the sub, I take it you have the aux climate control?

 

[Divemaster191307]

The best bet when trying to retain the original utility of the vehicle, is the Alpine PDX amps.

I was looking at those, but wouldn't I need a LOC for them? They don't seem to accept speaker-level input. Did you drive the amp straight from the HU on your '02?

Also, there is no room behind the right, rear panel.

I was afraid you'd say that! Darn...

 

[Divemaster191307]

Actually, the way physics works, the human ear only perceives a 3 db increase in sound. To get a 3 db increase in sound, you need to double the power. Speakers are rated at 1 watt/1 meter, for sensetivity. Each doubling of power is a 3db increase. Increasing 1 watt, to 2 watts is 3 db increase, 2W, to 4W= 3db increase. 4W, to 8W= 3db increase, etc...

If I understand correctly, and if the stock audiophile unit is roughly 25W, going from stock to 100W would be 6db (25W to 50W, then 50W to 100W), right?

So, if you are wanting to forgo the sub, I take it you have the aux climate control?

Nope, no aux climate. I meant that I was going to take baby steps in the upgrade, starting with doors, then later move on to the sub.

 

[deernet]

Nope, no aux climate. I meant that I was going to take baby steps in the upgrade, starting with doors, then later move on to the sub.

If you wanted to get a 4-channel amp for the door speakers, a great option would be to use an Alpine head unit with the Alpine Power Pack. It's a 4-channel amp that plugs right into your head unit so that you don't have to run separate power wires or run new wiring to your doors. It puts out 45 watts rms. I just got a Alpine CDA-105 head unit which also has a USB hookup so that you can connect an iPod, compact flash drive, or external hard drive. This HU is also compatible with the Power Pack, which I plan on ordering when I get a little extra cash, probably next week.

You can get the CDA-105 for around $175, and the Power Pack for ~$100.

Just throwing out some options.

 

[HCCA 250]

The "Powerpack" is a gimmick...more, or less. It is not enough of an improvement in power over stock, to actually matter. It doesn't have a switching power supply, so it won't be any better than stock. It's rating of 45 W/ch, is probably only true if you allow for the 20% distortion that you will get running it full tilt. Otherwise, it will be about the same as stock. If you want a real improvement, you need to have at least double the power that came stock, and an amp with a real switching power supply.

If you are concerned that the PDX amps don't accept speaker level, you can get a line converter for like...$20, I think...maybe less. You run your speaker wires into it, and then the converter will turn that into line level, with RCA outputs. That should be all you need to get signal to the amp. Of course, I would just replace the CD player with aftermarket, anyway. Factory stuff is usually pretty lame. In my case, it was a given. My factory deck died. Explorer 6 disc indash units are prone to going bad in about 4 years.

 

[deernet]

The "Powerpack" is a gimmick...more, or less. It is not enough of an improvement in power over stock, to actually matter. It doesn't have a switching power supply, so it won't be any better than stock. It's rating of 45 W/ch, is probably only true if you allow for the 20% distortion that you will get running it full tilt. Otherwise, it will be about the same as stock. If you want a real improvement, you need to have at least double the power that came stock, and an amp with a real switching power supply.

In this thread, which is stickied in the audio forums:

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25999

It says that the regular stock radio puts out 6 watts x 4 channels. Just upgrading to an Alpine HU gets you 18 watts x 4. So, by your description, this should be a noticeable difference in sound. I personally don't think that the Power Pack is marketing BS. I've heard too many good reviews.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262089

http://www.amazon.com/Alpine-KTP-44...sr_1_1_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

 

[HCCA 250]

It says that the regular stock radio puts out 6 watts x 4 channels.

My "stock" stereo system in my 2002 X, lists 300 watts. 50x4 +100. That is my "stock" factory radio. So, by that, no it IS a gimmick, by THAT measure. Not to mention, that the Power Pack is no greater in output than an aftermarket replacement HU. I could buy an Alpine HU for $175, and get the same power with a whole new CD player, as a bonus. I see no reason to spend the same money for just the PowerPack!..?????

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_18875_Alpine+CDA-105.html

 

[Divemaster191307]

I personally don't think that the Power Pack is marketing BS. I've heard too many good reviews.

I think you and HCCA 250 are both correct, just slightly different situations. If I had a std system with 4 x 6W, then the Alpine HU + PowerPack may make enough of a difference and be a relatively inexpensive option. And I was asking for options, afterall, so thank you for your input.

Unfortunately, I have the Audiophile system, which already puts out about as much as the Apine HU + PowerPack (although the Alpine has most likely a lot less THD). Add to that the Nav that I would then have to replace, and it is starting to look like an expensive proposition...

Then again, if the OEM unit only lasts about 4 years, I only have a few months before that happens, so I may as well look at a new HU altogether... Arghhh, nothing is simple these days!

 

[HCCA 250]

I think you and HCCA 250 are both correct, just slightly different situations. If I had a std system with 4 x 6W, then the Alpine HU + PowerPack may make enough of a difference and be a relatively inexpensive option.

Just a note, whatever you choose, if you get the Alpine HU, there would be no need for the power pack. The HU already has that same amount of power, built in.

 

[deernet]

My "stock" stereo system in my 2002 X, lists 300 watts. 50x4 +100. That is my "stock" factory radio. So, by that, no it IS a gimmick, by THAT measure. Not to mention, that the Power Pack is no greater in output than an aftermarket replacement HU. I could buy an Alpine HU for $175, and get the same power with a whole new CD player, as a bonus. I see no reason to spend the same money for just the PowerPack!..?????

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_18875_Alpine+CDA-105.html

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, is it that the CDA-105 already outputs 45w x 4? I've got the box for mine in my bedroom, and on the back, it says "18 watts x 4". If you'd like I'll take a picture.

 

[Nixthebomb]

Originally Posted by HCCA 250
My "stock" stereo system in my 2002 X, lists 300 watts. 50x4 +100. That is my "stock" factory radio. So, by that, no it IS a gimmick, by THAT measure. Not to mention, that the Power Pack is no greater in output than an aftermarket replacement HU. I could buy an Alpine HU for $175, and get the same power with a whole new CD player, as a bonus. I see no reason to spend the same money for just the PowerPack!..?????

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...e+CDA-105.html
I'm not sure what you're trying to say, is it that the CDA-105 already outputs 45w x 4? I've got the box for mine in my bedroom, and on the back, it says "18 watts x 4". If you'd like I'll take a picture.

What it means is that, it is always outputting 18W x4 (RMS), the 45W x4 is just what it maxes out at (Peak Power), so if the power pack outputs 45W x4 channels at all times (RMS) then yes that's a difference so please don't post things that you do not know for certain, it tends to confuse people asking questions. and I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone, just explaining things

 

[Divemaster191307]

What it means is that, it is always outputting 18W x4 (RMS), the 45W x4 is just what it maxes out at (Peak Power), so if the power pack outputs 45W x4 channels at all times (RMS) then yes that's a difference so please don't post things that you do not know for certain, it tends to confuse people asking questions. and I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone, just explaining things

I think what Deernet is saying is this:
CDA-105 is 18W x 4 RMS (50W x 4 PEAK, which is in essence a useless marketing claim anyway)
KTP-445 is 45Wx4 RMS (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_500KTP445/Alpine-KTP-445-Power-Pack.html?search=KTP-445&ssi=0&tp=115)

In any case, it is not really an option at this point anyway, since I'm not yet ready to consider replacing the HU. It would blow my budget...

 

[MillerTimeX17]

What it means is that, it is always outputting 18W x4 (RMS), the 45W x4 is just what it maxes out at (Peak Power), so if the power pack outputs 45W x4 channels at all times (RMS) then yes that's a difference so please don't post things that you do not know for certain, it tends to confuse people asking questions. and I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone, just explaining things

ditto.... i have the power pack and you can certainly tell a difference with and without it.


divemaster- sorry your thread got hijacked bro. hope i cant be a little more helpful. i was in the same boat as you with my 3rd gen w/ third row. what i ended up doing for my old 4-ch amp was mounting it under the driver side 2nd row seat. Im not sure how close in design my 3rd gen is to your 4th gen but most everything seems pretty close. I was using an alpine mrp-f300 and it fit just perfect. there are many other options as well, that are even smaller in size. and you said you dont have aux climate, have you checked behind your rear, left panel yet. ive seen several 3d gen guys with amps hidden behind that panel. anyways just make sure to spend the money and get a quality set of speakers, cuz thats what really makes the biggest difference. hope i helped a little.

 

[jad2411]

Here's mine on a 3rd gen: