Apten Chip and Cold Weather?!?!

[celly]

Hi All:

I've been having some issues with my Ex this winter and it only happens when the temps fall below -20C (-4F) and only when I start my day at freeway speeds (65 mph +). In all three days it happened to me, it was cold out and I was about 10-15 minutes into a trip and all times on the same freeway. Suddenly and without warning, my Ex stalls (not a good thing on the highway obviously, and each time it's happened, my wife and 2 month old son were with me....not good). In all three times after the first stall, the Ex continues to run like crap. It stalls on the freeway and then continues to do so on the slower roads afterwards. My Ex will feel like the revs are getting down too low before it stops. I have to turn the key to off, wait a minute and Ex starts up right away, often followed by a stall soon afterwards. I don't have this problem in the cold weather if I'm just driving around the neighbourhood without an extended drive on the freeway. I don't have the issue if it's warmer out.

I had thought the problem was a result of a poor seal on my MAC intake from one of the crankcase breather tubes. I just replaced the MAC with a Volant and the seals are fine. I even completely re-connected all the hose clamps today. I re-connected the battery and the Ex still ran like crap, and even ran worse and it was re-learning my driving habits.

Then I removed my Apten chip completely. I re-installed the computer sans Apten, reconnected the battery, then took it out on the freeway and stomped on it. While a bit sluggish after being returned to stock, I had no issues with stalling and/or the revs getting too low. I have had this issue with both the 87 and 91 programs. I don't know enough about tuning and what's involved, but could it be the canned 87/91 programs don't handle the cold weather? I'd contact Apten, but I don't really feel like waiting for days for emails not to be returned, and to leave voicemails that don't get returned in a timely manner.

Any similar experiences, theories, opinions, advice would be appreciated. Might not be the programs at all, but something else to look at. As an aside, there in NO CEL code thrown. I scanned afterward with my Actron code reader.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Nate1]

How well sanded are your contact points? You may need to resand them and possibly put a thin layer of dielectric grease on them to protect them... the chip may just be making poor contact.

Another possibility is in the cold weather + dry air you are getting small static discharges into your chip somehow I suppose.

I dont know, maybe something else, just thinking out loud.

 

[celly]

How well sanded are your contact points? You may need to resand them and possibly put a thin layer of dielectric grease on them to protect them... the chip may just be making poor contact.

Another possibility is in the cold weather + dry air you are getting small static discharges into your chip somehow I suppose.

I dont know, maybe something else, just thinking out loud.

Some good theories.

I definitely spent a lot of time making sure the contacts were clear. Well before I got the chip I read some of the horror stories of people who didn't take the time to make sure there was a good contact. I also held the chip in place with duct tape, as recommended in the instructions.

Because I don't have problems at anything but cold temps and highway speeds, I'm not sure it's a contact issue. I can drive around in the same temps at lower speeds and the Ex runs great.

re: static, I guess that's possible. We do have a very dry climate here without the cold weather.

Thanks for the input.

 

[HypIllAuto]

Celly,
As in the email I sent you, I believe that when you are just rolling around the neighborhood, you arent seeing the chilling temps as you are on the freeway, that the underhood temps are staying warmer with less airflow. I think that once you get on the freeway, that the windchill, combined with the thin metal on the chips contacts, is causing some major contraction in the metal, and you are losing contact. Educated guess at best, but I think thats the problem.

How well sanded are your contact points? You may need to resand them and possibly put a thin layer of dielectric grease on them to protect them... the chip may just be making poor contact.

Another possibility is in the cold weather + dry air you are getting small static discharges into your chip somehow I suppose.

I dont know, maybe something else, just thinking out loud.

 

[Nate1]

Celly,
As in the email I sent you, I believe that when you are just rolling around the neighborhood, you arent seeing the chilling temps as you are on the freeway, that the underhood temps are staying warmer with less airflow. I think that once you get on the freeway, that the windchill, combined with the thin metal on the chips contacts, is causing some major contraction in the metal, and you are losing contact. Educated guess at best, but I think thats the problem.

Another vaild point.

Maybe some thick insulation or a small set of 12v warmers is in order for your extreme climate?

 

[celly]

Another vaild point.

Maybe some thick insulation or a small set of 12v warmers is in order for your extreme climate?

These are both good ideas. We don't get these colder temps that often, but they do happen.

You mentioned dielectic grease. What is it? I also asked the question of Wayne in email. He's going to see if SCT has any ideas as well. We've got another cold snap on its way and I'd like to try out some of these ideas.

 

[HypIllAuto]

Dielectric grease is available at ANY good autoparts store. Basically, it is a light silicone based grease. Just for info, Silicone is one of the best conductors of electricity manufactured. It allows there to be a solid connectivity between points, even if the tolerances are not the best. It is also an insulator, and a moisture barrier as well. The intended use of it is for ignition points, plugs, wires, etc.
No offense to the point the other poster made earlier, but now that I think about it DO NOT use Dielectric grease on the chip contacts. Each contact on the chip is for a different information buss. By using the dg, you will in essence be connecting them ALL through the grease = BAD.
While good in theory, I think it will have nasty repercussions.

These are both good ideas. We don't get these colder temps that often, but they do happen.

You mentioned dielectic grease. What is it? I also asked the question of Wayne in email. He's going to see if SCT has any ideas as well. We've got another cold snap on its way and I'd like to try out some of these ideas.

 

[celly]

Wayne:

I don't think I'm going to mess around with that stuff. I think more attention needs to be paid to making sure the chip is seated better and I'll double and triple check everything when I put the chip back in, after it has a little "holiday" in the SE United States of course. I'll be in touch and thanks again for the help.

I did take my Ex out tonight. It's a cold and windy night. I opened her up hard on a deserted stretch of highway and no stalling and hesitation at all. She idled nicely after I got back. It's been a long time since I've driven the Ex without a chip, and I sure noticed it. Sluggish shifting and much less responsive. I really missed it. Oh well, new things to try out in a week or so.

Cheers!

 

[Nate1]

Whoa whoa... dielectric grease does NOT conduct electricity, its just a corrosion barrier.

 

[celly]

Whoa whoa... dielectric grease does NOT conduct electricity, its just a corrosion barrier.

Does that mean I can use it to increase conductivity in this application? I'd hate to clean up the contacts only to goop more stuff on them and make it worse.

 

[Nate1]

What it means is: you can clean your contacts very well, and then to seal them and protect them from moisture and corrosion, you can spread some over them. A very thin layer would suffice. Its more like preventative maintnence than anything... but I dont know how your contacts loked after you pulled the chip... are they oxidized...


also, what computer code are you?

 

[DirtyDog]

Hey Celly it's -31 here and my X took 3 tries to start with the remote starter this mornin. I think it's cause of the K&N on mine sucking in the COLD air when the engine is cold. It might be because of your MAC intake.


EDIT--I didn't have any problems last year with the stock intake also

 

[Nate1]

Perhaps your MAF sensor or IAT sensor is having a hard time getting the airtemp right and thus the amount of air entering your cylinders...?

 

[celly]

Hey Celly it's -31 here and my X took 3 tries to start with the remote starter this mornin. I think it's cause of the K&N on mine sucking in the COLD air when the engine is cold. It might be because of your MAC intake.

EDIT--I didn't have any problems last year with the stock intake also

Wow, it's chilly down in the Pass. Was -26C early this AM but warmed up to a balmy -18C today. ;-)

I'm pretty sure I've got a connectivity issue from what it sounds like the cold is probably making the connection worse. I've got some theories as to why the chip was not seated correctly and it's probably related to my own installation. At one point it stalled after I slammed the hood down. The hinges to the hood are pretty close to the PCM, so I'm pretty sure I just need to revisit proper seating when I put it back in. The chip itself is being sent out to get a few more tunes added, so I'm keeping it out for a few weeks and will take more time during the next install. No stalling/hesitation at all without the chip.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[celly]

Perhaps your MAF sensor or IAT sensor is having a hard time getting the airtemp right and thus the amount of air entering your cylinders...?

It's never really been an issue before now and given that she runs great without the chip suggests what you guys have been suggesting all along, a connectivity issue.

Computer code is CDE4. What's that do for you? (I know the tuners need it). Does that tell the average joe much about my Ex? I'd be curious to know what it translates to.

I appreciate the ideas.

p.s. I don't think there was any corrosion on the contacts. I can't look now because chip is sealed up in a box right now.

 

[boominXplorer]

you know how those resistor mods work that sell on ebay for like 5$ and 10$? They resisty your IAT and make your truck think cooler air is coming in and adding more fuel. Just liek that first nice jump on the throttle after you start up your car. Well chips have a method of the resistor chip. The IAT is seeing sooo cold of a temp its shooting too much gas and bogging it out. Got and Air fuel gauge by chance? I ahve one and notice when its really cold (no lass than 15*F) I run alot richer without a chip.

 

[celly]

you know how those resistor mods work that sell on ebay for like 5$ and 10$? They resisty your IAT and make your truck think cooler air is coming in and adding more fuel. Just liek that first nice jump on the throttle after you start up your car. Well chips have a method of the resistor chip. The IAT is seeing sooo cold of a temp its shooting too much gas and bogging it out. Got and Air fuel gauge by chance? I ahve one and notice when its really cold (no lass than 15*F) I run alot richer without a chip.

Interesting assessment. In much less technical terms, I was thinking the cold weather triggered some sort of "rich" environment causing the problem. I'm almost thinking that maybe I just run the stock program when it's cold like that. It's something to consider when I get my chip back.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[Doug904]

you know how those resistor mods work that sell on ebay for like 5$ and 10$? They resisty your IAT and make your truck think cooler air is coming in and adding more fuel. Just liek that first nice jump on the throttle after you start up your car. Well chips have a method of the resistor chip. The IAT is seeing sooo cold of a temp its shooting too much gas and bogging it out. Got and Air fuel gauge by chance? I ahve one and notice when its really cold (no lass than 15*F) I run alot richer without a chip.

Well actually you have a table in your programming that adds or subtracts both fuel to the commanded a/f ratio along with spark. Still you have a maximum allowed spark table control the total timing and after your vehicle warms up the a/f table goes to a commanded value as well, or tries to. This can be highly affected from a cold air intake not from just the colder air but from actually the altered transfer function of the meter from the different mounting and air tubes of the cold air kit.

I too think it's a connection issue, we'll see with some different tuning but I don't think that will correct the problem. I'll post some more stuff about this same problem that I was having with my truck when I get home tonight.

Thanks, Doug.

 

[HypIllAuto]

If you'd like to try an experiment, buy a BIG tube of dielectric grease. Put a large dollop on a piece of cardboard, stick a positive wire into it, and then wire in a light, stick the pos side from the light into the grease, and then connect the neg side to the power source. I would be willing to place a bet that the light fires up immedialtely.

Whoa whoa... dielectric grease does NOT conduct electricity, its just a corrosion barrier.

 

[aldive]

I also thought dielectric was a non conductor of electricity.

I looked the word up in a dictionary ( on line ) and this is the definition: A nonconductor of electricity, especially a substance with electrical conductivity of less than a millionth (10-6) of a siemens.