At wits end

[PotatoExplorer]

Whoa, that got me all types of confused!

The injector code is most likely an issue with the plug most likely the clip is broken. Try to fasten a zip tie around the injector and plug to keep it tight.

Is this a common cause/effect problem that allows for misfires? I've always noticed on my cylinder 1 injector, the fastener clip that *clicks* when you press the two ends together, was broken. When the two ends were pressed together it felt tight enough (in my opinion) to not have to really worry about. Anytime I pop the hood I normally go through and press down on all the plugs on the COPs and injectors just as a normal routine check (and maybe a little OCD), but never felt any play. This is interesting because my Forscan said I had a misfire in cylinder 1... hmmm!

 

[Scooby0048]

Whoa, that got me all types of confused!

HAHA you and me both!

When the two ends were pressed together it felt tight enough (in my opinion) to not have to really worry about.

I mean mine feels like it is on prefect. The pigtail clicked and it does not seem to want to go any further down on the injector. Guess I will try a little dielectric grease and a zip tie just for S* and giggles. At this point it would be no worse than what I have already tried right!

 

[Scooby0048]

Does anyone know the torque sequence and specs for the intake manifold for these engines. I just want to double check that the intake is torqued down correctly and not causing my random misfires and P0171 and P0174 codes due to a slight vac leak. I tried the carb cleaner method to find a leak but nothing.

Still trying to do quick and cheap first.

 

[Bill MacLeod]

Intake manifold bolts are torqued in 2 stages. 18 in lbs and 89 in lbs
Sequence is:
9 -10 (rear of manifold)
5 - 6
1 - 2 (centre)
3 - 4
7 - 8 (front of manifold)

 

[Scooby0048]

Intake manifold bolts are torqued in 2 stages. 18 in lbs and 89 in lbs
Sequence is:
9 -10 (rear of manifold)
5 - 6
1 - 2 (centre)
3 - 4
7 - 8 (front of manifold)

Thanks, that will be the next step.

Based on the recurring 171 &174 codes and the live data, I am seriously starting to consider there might be a vacuum leak. If I cannot find it on my own, I am going to try and borrow a smoke machine to double check.

 

[boominXplorer]

What are your short term fuel trims reading? 99% of the time 171/174 codes are vacuum leaks so I'd assume you have one. Do you not hear any hissing when it's running? I wouldn't think there's an issue with the intake gaskets unless someone has previously been in there.

 

[Scooby0048]

Do you not hear any hissing when it's running? I wouldn't think there's an issue with the intake gaskets unless someone has previously been in there.

That's the thing, I tried the carb cleaner method, the stethoscope, and the water method and cannot find a leak, no obvious hissing or sucking sound. I know I'll need to smoke her but I just have not gotten to that point yet. The gaskets were changed out in April or so and with it kicking all those cotinual codes, I am really leaning towards vac leak. That's also why I'm thinking maybe double check that the manifold is torqued down correctly. I'll try to torque then get it warmed up and do the second stage of torquing.

A far as my STFT readings. I''l have to go back and get new ones. I erased the PCM after trying a new injector. Just curios, but what should they be at idle and then under load? When I took it for a ride yesterday, it was ridiculously rough at low rpm but then once at greater rpm /speed it ran just fine. Another reason I am suspecting vac leak.

 

[boominXplorer]

STFT should be +/- 5 at most. If you have a big vac leal near cyl #2 it would cause the miss. I don't have a 3v explorer infront of me to think of all the vacuum locations to check.

Have you had the same codes since you pulled the manifold or are they new?

 

[Scooby0048]

STFT should be +/- 5 at most. Have you had the same codes since you pulled the manifold or are they new?

I think from memory, the STFT might have been higher but I will check that again later today. I have not had the same codes until recently. The truck was running great no codes and then on the highway it suddenly kicked out the flashing check engine light and that's when I got the all three codes.

I don't have a 3v explorer infront of me to think of all the vacuum locations to check

You have been way more helpful than I could ask and it is really appreciated, don't worry about it. I have been reading and reading and coming up with nothing. I'm not an idiot, I wrench on any car I have owned (most of the time successfully) but this is stumping me.

 

[Scooby0048]

@boominXplorer
Tore into it this evening. Just as I suspected there was a leak so new intake gaskets will be put in on Tuesday or Wednesday. Hoping that after what evidence there was on the block and head, that will solve my 171 and 174 and 302.

This is bank #1

This is the plug from #2 before I did the plugs and coils.

 

[Scooby0048]

This is bank #2

This is the #7 plug from before the plugs and coil change.

 

[boominXplorer]

What brand plugs are those? They definitely don't look like Motorcraft

 

[boominXplorer]

Hard to tell by the pics if there is a leak or not. See anything crazy upon taking it apart?

 

[Scooby0048]

What brand plugs are those? They definitely don't look like Motorcraft

Before I did the COPS and plugs, they were Champion 7989. I used the Motorcraft plugs

Hard to tell by the pics if there is a leak or not. See anything crazy upon taking it apart?

Very first pic is bank #1. On the #2, there was some liquid that had made it's way slightly past the gaskets.

Intake manifold bolts are torqued in 2 stages. 18 in lbs and 89 in lbs
Sequence is:
9 -10 (rear of manifold)
5 - 6
1 - 2 (centre)
3 - 4
7 - 8 (front of manifold)

Bill, I appreciate the info. Just wondering where you got that from because I could not locate consistent torque specs anywhere and the few places I saw torque specs at all, there were different values listed than which you posted as well as different values of competing websites. Some even stated to re-torque after warm up when others did not.

Some of the images of the manifold even showed the wrong manifold so forgive me if I'm a little paranoid.

 

[boominXplorer]

Those stains are normal from the pcv and egr. The white outlines are from the gaskets.

 

[Bill MacLeod]

Specs from a 2006 Explorer/Mountaineer Workshop Manual.

Very light torque into the aluminum heads. Good idea to check torque after a heat cycle or 2.

 

[Scooby0048]

Those stains are normal from the pcv and egr. The white outlines are from the gaskets.

There should still not be any liquid on the inside of where the gasket mates to the head though, right? The other side was dry as a bone. I guess at this point it's moot I just have to make sure it doesn't do that again. I've read that people have applied a thin layer of jb weld to smooth out the corrosion or rtv to add an extra layer of sealing. I'm not planning on doing that, but I do want to do it right. Any tips make it last?

 

[Scooby0048]

Specs from a 2006 Explorer/Mountaineer Workshop Manual.

Very light torque into the aluminum heads. Good idea to check torque after a heat cycle or 2.

Thanks for that Bill, does it mention dry or wet threads and if a thread locker /sealant is to be used? I assume those are not TTY bolts like head bolts are since I cannot find them listed for sale anywhere other than fordparts.

 

[boominXplorer]

There should still not be any liquid on the inside of where the gasket mates to the head though, right? The other side was dry as a bone. I guess at this point it's moot I just have to make sure it doesn't do that again. I've read that people have applied a thin layer of jb weld to smooth out the corrosion or rtv to add an extra layer of sealing. I'm not planning on doing that, but I do want to do it right. Any tips make it last?

Did it look or smell like fuel? Any liquid sitting on the valves? Don't rtv the intake gaskets. If there is corrosion around the coolant ports you can repair it with jb weld.

 

[Scooby0048]

Did it look or smell like fuel? Any liquid sitting on the valves? Don't rtv the intake gaskets. If there is corrosion around the coolant ports you can repair it with jb weld.

It looked like water or coolant. Did not have a fuel smell but also did not smell like coolant. On the #2 it looked like a small amount of liquid on the valve like 1-2 drops (literally) of moisture.

Could it have been condensation maybe?