Auto Start-Stop Technology

[MikeHTally]

^^ I'm with you. I am definitely not concerned about it since half the time it doesn't 'kick' in any way.

Peter

Man, mine does. Every time I forget to push that button, the first red light shuts down the motor with that heart-stopping shudder.

 

[HacksawMark]

Don't know where I said that's a change. All I said was the warranty is gone on the starter at 36K. That means after 36K, the owner is on the hook for anything not internally lubricated.

I've replaced four starters, four or five alternators, two water pumps and a few other goodies in my 50+ years of driving. The starters were on a '66 Pontiac LeMans, a '95 Dodge Wagon, '01 Dodge Ram and an '02 Toyota Camry. By far the hardest was the Pontiac. That coffee can must weigh over 20#. Nearly took my face off when the last bolt came out.

I owned a 2005 Civic Hybrid which had the auto start stop feature. Drove it for 258,000 miles over 8 years and still had the original starter, working perfectly. From a practical standpoint, best car I've ever owned.

 

[MikeHTally]

I owned a 2005 Civic Hybrid which had the auto start stop feature. Drove it for 258,000 miles over 8 years and still had the original starter, working perfectly. From a practical standpoint, best car I've ever owned.

Impressive. I wonder if Hondas are still that good. From what I've read, neither they nor Toyota are as good as they were. I have a co-worker who had a Toyota 4-Runner that was still running just fine at 350K + when it got totaled by a texting wizard. She gave another one (north of 250K) to her son. He's still driving it. I believe the one she has now is nearing 200K.

 

[Cathiefig]

"... made a noticeable difference on mpg." Only in your mind, man. Consider yourself lucky. I wish I could permanently banish that A.S.S. bullsh!t from mine. Any minuscule fuel saving would be seriously offset by more-frequent starter and battery replacements.

I was super glad to delete the start/stop option on my XLT. My current vehicle has it and it's a major pain in the ass.

 

[MikeHTally]

I was super glad to delete the start/stop option on my XLT. My current vehicle has it and it's a major pain in the ass.

How? I've looked and looked and I've not found a good way to banish that demon.

 

[peterk9]

How? I've looked and looked and I've not found a good way to banish that demon.

Mike, if I read the post correctly, the Start/Stop option was deleted in the order process and not actually by the member.

Peter

 

[MikeHTally]

Shux. Yeah, I was gonna go visit the dealer - "Look, this owner DELETED A.S.S." I saw "... glad to delete the start/stop option ..." and was ready to pounce on the dealer or dig around in ForScan some more.

 

[RickyG]

Shux. Yeah, I was gonna go visit the dealer - "Look, this owner DELETED A.S.S." I saw "... glad to delete the start/stop option ..." and was ready to pounce on the dealer or dig around in ForScan some more.

How hard is it to just reach over and push the button to turn it off?

 

[MikeHTally]

Depends on what else is happening. Fairly easy to forget, especially when running errands (multiple starts).

 

[hbalek]

Depends on what else is happening. Fairly easy to forget, especially when running errands (multiple starts).

It is so annoying especially in the summer heat! In the winter I really don't care and like the feature. I wish Ford were like other brands let us turn it off permanently and then be able turn on later on. I know some other brands allow you to hold the button down to deactivate. It should be just like the Auto Hold which stays on if you want or off if you choose to leave off.

 

[MikeHTally]

Subaru and Porsche don't even provide a button to push. Those owners are just stuck with this nonsense.

 

[I bleed Ford Blue]

How hard is it to just reach over and push the button to turn it off?

You're missing the point. Ford should have made the ASS default to off, then we can use it if we choose to. It's annoying to have to remember every time you start the car to turn off ASS.

 

[RickyG]

You're missing the point. Ford should have made the ASS default to off, then we can use it if we choose to. It's annoying to have to remember every time you start the car to turn off ASS.

I’m not missing any point… if it’s so annoying to remember every time you start your car to turn off the ASS I bet it just kills you to have to reach up and use a blinker and or push a button to raise the radio volume on your steering wheel, and heaven forbid you have to reach over and push a switch to lower your drivers window.

 

[CDW6212R]

The vehicle should be at the command of the driver, not the other way around. You should all keep an eye out for old mail vehicles for sale, and see if those have a higher rate of starter failures, as well as shifter mechanism's being loose or slipping out of gear unpredictably(in the next coming years).

By mandate all mail carriers have to shut off the engine every time they get out of the driver's seat, due to morons who keep leaving their vehicle in gear when they get out. Because of those idiots, who are all fired BTW, they punish everybody else with new dumb rules. So mail vehicles since about 2012 have been using the starter about 40-50 times a day, instead of a half dozen times per day. All starters of late model cars are relatively strong and efficient, versus the old huge and heavy types of the 70's etc.

They can take 50-100,000 uses, sure, fine. But using them ten times as often will wear them out ten times as fast, that's not a myth, a guess, or BS(whatever excuse name calling you have posted here). It's a fact, the starters of all of those with the Start/Stop feature will have failures way sooner than if they were only used once per drive. The facts will be learned eventually, it will simply take another five or ten, maybe 20 years. By then everyone will have accepted that failure rate, and only the oldest people will remember when a starter virtually never failed.

 

[J_C]

Again, it's a myth that the auto start stop feature shortens the life of the starter. There is no documented evidence proving otherwise.

There is no evidence that they last as long either, and reasons to believe they won't, and a guarantee that when it does fail, it will cost more to replace.

Read that sentence above a few times till it sinks in. There is no reason to believe it won't result in higher repair costs in the long term, as well as higher initial vehicle price. Will it save you enough in fuel over that term? It could depend on your driving scenario, and of course the cost of fuel.

Personally, my driving scenario isn't the same as what automakers optimize to reach fuel efficient standards for government testing, where there's quite a lot of sitting at red lights. At the same time, it could be that this means I wear the super-starter less, but it also means, less benefit and more money wasted on it, plus the interest over time... do not want.

Ford has been around, a "while", and stop/start never would have happened if not for government penalties instead of letting the free market decide. Maybe today it would with fuel at $5+ per gallon, but the government isn't exactly innocent in that happening either. Dirty, political, anti-american acts are harming the majority of US citizens.

 

[J_C]

I’m not missing any point… if it’s so annoying to remember every time you start your car to turn off the ASS I bet it just kills you to have to reach up and use a blinker and or push a button to raise the radio volume on your steering wheel, and heaven forbid you have to reach over and push a switch to lower your drivers window.

No you really are missing the point. Nothing should ever default to requiring continuous user intervention if it doesn't have to.

The industry should be building according to what the customer wants, which is not to pay extra if they don't want this feature, and if they want it disabled, for it to remain disabled until they decide otherwise.

How is this hard to understand? Suppose you told your son "no crack ****** in the house". You want that to remain the rule, right? You don't want him to keep asking multiple times a day "but dad can I have a crack ***** in the house?". If as you put it, there are other burdens such as washing dishes, paying bills, mowing the lawn, then it's not ridiculous to keep having to address something that shouldn't keep happening? It IS ridiculous.

Lol, extreme example, but maybe it makes the issue clearer?

 

[Fix4Dirt]

No you really are missing the point. Nothing should ever default to requiring continuous user intervention if it doesn't have to.

The industry should be building according to what the customer wants, which is not to pay extra if they don't want this feature, and if they want it disabled, for it to remain disabled until they decide otherwise.

How is this hard to understand? Suppose you told your son "no crack ****** in the house". You want that to remain the rule, right? You don't want him to keep asking multiple times a day "but dad can I have a crack ***** in the house?". If as you put it, there are other burdens such as washing dishes, paying bills, mowing the lawn, then it's not ridiculous to keep having to address something that shouldn't keep happening? It IS ridiculous.

Lol, extreme example, but maybe it makes the issue clearer?

oh my, had a good laugh on that post!!! HAH!

I’m not missing any point… if it’s so annoying to remember every time you start your car to turn off the ASS I bet it just kills you to have to reach up and use a blinker and or push a button to raise the radio volume on your steering wheel, and heaven forbid you have to reach over and push a switch to lower your drivers window.

i think its less that its a hassle, and its more unintuitive. i suppose if i grew up witht his feature it would be fine, but i didnt. radio dial has been around ages, and all of us (assume) grew up with a radio knob, but very few grew up with the ass button, so its not something we think of. suppose in 30 years maybe it will be normalized and we wnt think of it, similiar to pushing the start button we just push the button too, but as of now its still novel and not an "automatic" process so to speak. not sure if this makes sense

 

[HacksawMark]

There is no evidence that they last as long either, and reasons to believe they won't, and a guarantee that when it does fail, it will cost more to replace.

As long as what exactly? I've had a 64 Dodge Polaris, 65 Chevy Impala, 66 Chevy pickup, 84 Datsun 210. All eventually needed their starters replaced. Since then, I've had 95 Explorer, 97 Ford F 150, 97 Mustang, 2000 F 350, 2002 GMC 2500, 2004 Acura TL, 2006 BMW 325 C, and 2014 Subaru Crosstrek, none of which needed their starters replaced. As for start/stop tech, 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid, 2016 F 150, 2018 Toyota Tacoma, and 2019 F 150. I would venture to say I had more starts in those vehicles than all the others combined, and none required a new starter. I think it safe to assume that autos components today will last longer than similar components from the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. Cost more to replace? That's a given due to inflation. I mean geez, how much does it cost to replace a windshield these days.

 

[CDW6212R]

As long as what exactly? I've had a 64 Dodge Polaris, 65 Chevy Impala, 66 Chevy pickup, 84 Datsun 210. All eventually needed their starters replaced. Since then, I've had 95 Explorer, 97 Ford F 150, 97 Mustang, 2000 F 350, 2002 GMC 2500, 2004 Acura TL, 2006 BMW 325 C, and 2014 Subaru Crosstrek, none of which needed their starters replaced. As for start/stop tech, 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid, 2016 F 150, 2018 Toyota Tacoma, and 2019 F 150. I would venture to say I had more starts in those vehicles than all the others combined, and none required a new starter. I think it safe to assume that autos components today will last longer than similar components from the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. Cost more to replace? That's a given due to inflation. I mean geez, how much does it cost to replace a windshield these days.

Your guesses are no more true facts than mine, or any post in this thread. There is no evidence we have at this time showing starters are better, or will last longer etc. There is no evidence that they will wear out faster either. But logic and common sense trump all guesses. Nobody should be dumb enough to suggest a starter will last as long when being used ten times more often, than used ten times less often. Yet there are lots of posts here that have suggested(guessed) that.

So stop debating without facts, and accept logic as the closest thing to reality we have. The vehicles with the new ASS system will have more costs associated with the starters and the starter circuits, over time. Whether it's more up front, or long term from more costs later, it will cost more, no doubt at all.

All that matters is how to work with it now. If an owner doesn't want to have it operational, then it should be off, and defaulted to off, all the time for them. If you like it, fine, then you turn it on and leave others alone to do as they wish. This is all part of freedom, which right now is a dwindling privilege.

 

[peterk9]

Will Auto Start-Stop Damage Your Starter?​

Any vehicle equipped with auto start-stop is also equipped with a more robust starter. The starters that come in an auto start-stop system use dual-layer, long life electric brushes. These brushes reduce the normal wear and tear of your starter by 90%. In other words, the starters are overbuilt to handle the demands of auto start-stop systems.

https://www.cjponyparts.com/resources/auto-start-stop-explained