Bad designs all around.... | Page 3 | Ford Explorer Forums

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Bad designs all around....

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I've never run into that on any of our Ford vehicles. I wonder if somebody replaced some of the hardware on yours with SAE? Are you the original owner?

I agree. I haven't found any SAE on my '99 yet. You WILL have to use those previously unused 11,15, and 18mm sockets, though! I have NEVER used them on any Jap or German car I worked on.
 



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There were a few cars made by Ford that had no tach on em.. the mid 1990s Ford Escort/Tracers on certain models had no tachometer. You had to listen to the engine to change gears. Another car that has no tach is a base model Toyota Yaris manual. Based on the trim level on most manufacturers you won't get a tach
 






If you have to change the spark plugs on a Toyota front wheel drive V6 you will make similar comments regarding poor serviceability. In order to replace the three rear plugs the intake manifold (among other items) must be removed.

Any FWD V6 is pretty much the same way. Im very lucky on my SHO that all I have to remove to get to my rear plugs is the bracket for the secondary control. I mean, I've worked on these cars so much I can remove and reinstall one in about 20 minutes, but its still extra steps in glad I dont have to take.

that's my point... the 4.0 isn't typical ford fashion to barely beat out Chevy... a 4.4 based on a 351 with the back 2 lopped off would have been....




no.... the Explorer has a 4.0 that gets what, 20mpg and makes less than 200hp and barely 200ft/lb torque? in a heavier 4,000+lb chasis... further since Ford was able to cram a v8 in the same engine bay - there's clearly a bit of room to spare for smarter service-ability of the more common engine.

my IS300 makes more power out of a 3.0 I6 and gets better gas mileage.

Maybe you haven't seen Fords space saving designs on the 5.0 to "cram" it into an Explorer.. Yeah Its cool they did it, and it made great power and torque and for sure was the leader of its segment.. But what a pain in the dick to work on.

The exhaust manifolds were an abortion, the waterpump snout was almost non existant, they had to use the Cobra manifolds (not complaining there) because they were shorter than the trucks.

IMHO that chasis had no reason to put that motor in there. Its to big for a, and this next word is key now, PRODUCTION car.

ford 4.0l v6 is 210 bhp 290 ft-lbs torque.

your IS about 1000-1500 lbs lighter.

i can take a civic and do 7 seconds with it, but the car will weigh a little more then 1300 lbs. less driver.

Which 4.0 are you referring to. the OHV is an under-powered dog. Its a reliable sum-*****, but jesus christ it can bearly get out of its own way. The SOHC was a great motor and should have been utilized way more, but the poor design of the timing system, i feel, is what cursed that motor.

I had a '95 Toyota pickup before the '96 Explorer I have now, and both have been pretty reliable, but admittedly the Toy was more so.

The main difference in the two was the fenders and other parts on the Toy were so rusted they were flapping in the wind, while just mainly the wheel openings have rust on my Ex.

Toyotas are reliable. I wont disgree with that at all.

IMHO Toyota's are bland, boring, ugly, unpleasant cars and trucks. The trucks in the 80's, 90's and early 00's were WAY to weak compared to their american counterpart and they are stupidly complicated to work on. There are so many extra wires and vacuum lines that can become brittle and break the minute you look at them.

Im spoiled by my SHO because of how easy it it to work on the damn things.. Granted, getting parts now a days is beginning to become a challange, but, i still enjoy the car.

Like has stated before, every car has their corks. Either learn to live with them or get rid of the ####ing thing. Everyone has an opinion on something and only half of the people you meet will agree.

My Ford's.. They rot.. The transmisisons are weak and the interiors are made of cheap material.. BUT, they start every time i turn the key, parts are usually 1/3 or more the cost of the same part for a japanese car (55 for starter on a small block vs 200 for a starter on camry or maxima) and theyre just fun to drive.

My SHO has some rot, but everytime i get in the car, throw it around some corners, bury the speedo and rev it to 7.5k it makes me smile.. Oh, and I also get 29-30 MPG on the highway... Ill take my corky taurus over a camry ANY day.

As for the Ex.. Same thing. ####ers got more rot and decay than a hillbillys mouth. But, for the money you cant beat it with ride and size and tow capacity..

:salute:
 






machine shop..... took them 2 hours to extract 3 broken bolts... said they were the worst broken bolts they had ever dealt with.... they were so annoyed about it they said they weren't even sure they would continue to do broken bolts for non-regular customers...


I used to have an 86 4runner.... paid almost 1/3rd the price for it than I did for the Explorer (and I paid about 1/3 of blue book on the Explorer)... didn't have any issues with bolts breaking, stripping, or access when working on it (and I did my fair share on it). It was dog slow, though (not that the Ex is *much* better)
 






A couple things to mention here as a tech at an exhaust company. If it took them more than an hour to remove the bolts then you went to the wrong shop, and it they turned on a drill then they have no idea what they were doing. The easiest way to remove a broken manifold bolt is to weld on a nut and heat it until it glows a few times. 9 times out of 10 they come right out. with the head out of the truck i could have done all of them in less than an hour. And on another note the chevy v-8's with aluminum heads are by far worse than the 4.0. I have replaced broken manifold bolts on just about anything you can imagine. The problem of broken bolts has nothing to do with the length, its all about the high heat causing them to rust faster, and those hardware store bolts you bought arent even gonna last a year unless they are heat treated. the reason the dealer gets so much for manifold bolts is because they use special treatments on the bolts to increase service life.
 






A couple things to mention here as a tech at an exhaust company. If it took them more than an hour to remove the bolts then you went to the wrong shop, and it they turned on a drill then they have no idea what they were doing. The easiest way to remove a broken manifold bolt is to weld on a nut and heat it until it glows a few times. 9 times out of 10 they come right out. with the head out of the truck i could have done all of them in less than an hour. And on another note the chevy v-8's with aluminum heads are by far worse than the 4.0. I have replaced broken manifold bolts on just about anything you can imagine. The problem of broken bolts has nothing to do with the length, its all about the high heat causing them to rust faster, and those hardware store bolts you bought arent even gonna last a year unless they are heat treated. the reason the dealer gets so much for manifold bolts is because they use special treatments on the bolts to increase service life.

There wasn't enough room to weld to.... we have a welder at the shop the Explorer is at.... almost all snapped inset into the head. I think the real reason they were a PITA to get out is because the holes go through, allowing the bolt to rust into the hole from both side.

I have a hard time swallowing that they are "specially coated" bolts. They're just hardened steel bolts... they aren't even grade 8 bolts.


Might I add -- using a welding technique to the point where the steel that is stuck/inset into the head until it's glowing red is just asking for more machine work... especially aluminum heads (not applicable here) you are seriously risking warping the head.

My point still stands.... an M8 x 75mm bolt is the wrong bolt size to use for an exhaust manifold. Period.
 






& as for the IS300 power... it was an example and not really a good one especially considering there's lots of room to work on it.

the case & point made earlier about toyota motors requiring the manifold to be removed (and my rebuttel of power/size/space/gas savings) is probably more directed towards the 2GR... which is a smallish V6 that makes 290hp (n/a) an 87 pump gas and gets 30mpg... it's a commonly (now) used engine in MR2 swaps as well.
 






He didn't say coated.... heat treated is not a coating.
 






...and seriously, what do you want? Some cheese with your whine?

Since you have all the answers, why don't you contract out your services as a consultant to Ford and make some big money and never have to work on another vehicle yourself all while making the task of maintenece for us shade tree guys (and professionals alike) that much easier?
 






Seriously ^ please, since he has the master's in Mechanical Engineering then why isn't he designing the cars. Oh wait, toyotaspeed you don't have a ME degree do you?
 






haha, no. But the son of an engineer, many engineering classes in both HS and at the VRI at WWU, self-taught mechanics, was ASE certified when i was in the business.. worked both parts and as a tech, considerable modificatons... Lets see... also a big part of the local motorsports club (vice president), old roommate I worked on numerous projects with IS a Honda designer now.....I'm more than capable of identifying bad design.

Ironically when I was in those classes at the VRI we were using the same exact CAD program that Ford used (it was one of it's "highlights") in the 90's through early 00's... and that program was terrible... continually crashing and was barely able to render simple designs. Can't recall the name of it (wasn't autocad & it wasn't solidworks...) but the VRI switched the next year.

I love how defensive people get when you talk about obvious ****ty designs when it comes down to 'beloved' cars. The reason I held back for a few months starting this project is because of all the complaints I've seen on this, and other, forums alike about pulling the heads for this job (and a lot of others saying "expect broke exhaust manifold bolts"). I've been into 80's Toyota's and I have no problems agreeing with bad designs...
 






Everyone's argument has been made. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Thread closed
 






Well, I've done my fair share of fooling around with my explorers--ooops Mountaineers and explorer. All of them. None have failed to get me home no matter what I did to them while I was away. Although, the one I fooled with the most has towed our Nissan home. Which BTW has a 15mm idler bolt.

:D
This thread is silly. If you hate a car going into it, working on it will only be a frustration, and, you will break things.
 






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