Bad injector being replaced, should they all be done?

[Chickensandwich]

I’m getting #2 injector replaced. I asked if it was worthwhile to just replace all of them since everything is being opened up. They said no. Just replace the bad one. The one thing I think about is the fact that this is a PIU and was subject to 3 years of crappy municipal gas quality. If one went bad, isn’t the chance of the others being bad fairly high? Or should I just get the one bad one replaced? I don’t want to do this again…

 

[gapcomputer]

if you have the money replace all, if not, at least replace the ones in the back, that are a pain to replace if you don't have the tools or knowledge.

 

[peterk9]

You stated "was subject to 3 years of crappy municipal gas quality." Is that a fact or an assumption? The few times that I used a vehicle from the RCMP motor pool there was a top-tier gas card in the glovebox.

Peter

 

[Chickensandwich]

You stated "was subject to 3 years of crappy municipal gas quality." Is that a fact or an assumption? The few times that I used a vehicle from the RCMP motor pool there was a top-tier gas card in the glovebox.

Peter

It’s an assumption based on my prior knowledge as well. Around here, the gas is crap and the minicipalities will NOT spend any more than they have to. With one eco boost car, they would not get high octane gas. As dirty as the fuel system apparently was, and one injector clogged in 3 years, it’s only common sense to assume that the gas they used was also crap

 

[94Eddie]

I’m getting #2 injector replaced. I asked if it was worthwhile to just replace all of them since everything is being opened up. They said no. Just replace the bad one. The one thing I think about is the fact that this is a PIU and was subject to 3 years of crappy municipal gas quality. If one went bad, isn’t the chance of the others being bad fairly high? Or should I just get the one bad one replaced? I don’t want to do this again…

In cases like this I look at the labor cost to replace them. The higher the cost of labor to replace a single injector as compared to replacing them all, the more I am likely to replace them all. The same goes for other repairs. I replaced a radiator and while it was apart though it was a good time to replace the water pump that had over 100k miles on it. I just didn't want to have to go through the hassles of all that labor again when the cost of a water pump isn't all that high.

 

[Chickensandwich]

In cases like this I look at the labor cost to replace them. The higher the cost of labor to replace a single injector as compared to replacing them all, the more I am likely to replace them all. The same goes for other repairs. I replaced a radiator and while it was apart though it was a good time to replace the water pump that had over 100k miles on it. I just didn't want to have to go through the hassles of all that labor again when the cost of a water pump isn't all that high.

Due to them struggling to find and fix my issue, they are charging me only parts. I’d like all 6 replaced, but I’m not sure if they will agree

 

[94Eddie]

Due to them struggling to find and fix my issue, they are charging me only parts. I’d like all 6 replaced, but I’m not sure if they will agree

You could ask thenm how much cost it would be to replace them all versus one. If the cost is minimal then maybe getting them all replaced isn't a bad choice. Especially if the labor cost is being subsidized to a large extent.

 

[VCFP153]

You could ask thenm how much cost it would be to replace them all versus one. If the cost is minimal then maybe getting them all replaced isn't a bad choice. Especially if the labor cost is being subsidized to a large extent.

I would agree, my advice would be to replace all six, if at all feasible.

 

[Chickensandwich]

They did a flow test and they are 100%. I had so many issue including massive carbon build up, they had the car 10 days. For a 2018, I couldn’t understand the carbon issues. I have a tube ordered to complete the repair. It’s some tube that is rotted around one of the clamps giving me the underboost code. Lots of issues for a 2018. The PIU is running really quick now. A twitch of the foot and takes off like a rocket. The additional injectors weren’t needed.

 

[VCFP153]

They did a flow test and they are 100%. I had so many issue including massive carbon build up, they had the car 10 days. For a 2018, I couldn’t understand the carbon issues. I have a tube ordered to complete the repair. It’s some tube that is rotted around one of the clamps giving me the underboost code. Lots of issues for a 2018. The PIU is running really quick now. A twitch of the foot and takes off like a rocket. The additional injectors weren’t needed.

Sounds like poor maintenance, as well as not quite enough "Italian tuneups".

 

[94Eddie]

They did a flow test and they are 100%. I had so many issue including massive carbon build up, they had the car 10 days. For a 2018, I couldn’t understand the carbon issues. I have a tube ordered to complete the repair. It’s some tube that is rotted around one of the clamps giving me the underboost code. Lots of issues for a 2018. The PIU is running really quick now. A twitch of the foot and takes off like a rocket. The additional injectors weren’t needed.

If you are having carbon buildup issues I would recommend looking into installing a good quality catch can. This will intercept a lot of the oil that gets into the intake system from the PVC system. The carbon is coming from oil getting into the intake tract then into the combustion chambers.

Also, some of this carbon buildup might be from how the PIU was operated before you obtained it. High idle times etc. might have caused the issue where your current driving style does not. I think the 2018 GDI engines got duel port injection so this should help with carbon buildup on the valves. I would still install a catch can on a GDI engine.

 

[Chickensandwich]

If you are having carbon buildup issues I would recommend looking into installing a good quality catch can. This will intercept a lot of the oil that gets into the intake system from the PVC system. The carbon is coming from oil getting into the intake tract then into the combustion chambers.

Also, some of this carbon buildup might be from how the PIU was operated before you obtained it. High idle times etc. might have caused the issue where your current driving style does not. I think the 2018 GDI engines got duel port injection so this should help with carbon buildup on the valves. I would still install a catch can on a GDI engine.

What’s a good quality catch can? I saw a you tube video on one version, not sure what year, but it was a lot of work. I wouldn’t think it would be more that a hose or two.

 

[peterk9]

What’s a good quality catch can? I saw a you tube video on one version, not sure what year, but it was a lot of work. I wouldn’t think it would be more that a hose or two.

This is just one of several threads on 'catch can' that I found with the 'Search' feature; Oil catch can / who has installed it and how much oil becomes "catched" ?

Peter

 

[94Eddie]

What’s a good quality catch can? I saw a you tube video on one version, not sure what year, but it was a lot of work. I wouldn’t think it would be more that a hose or two.

The installation on turbocharged engines is more complicated than on N/A ones. I assume yours is a N/A engine. If so then any number of N/A catch can systems will work. JLT makes good ones, IMO, and they are reasonably priced. If your engine is N/A this one might work well: JLT Performance 3016P-C JLT Performance Oil Separators | Summit Racing

 

[Chickensandwich]

The installation on turbocharged engines is more complicated than on N/A ones. I assume yours is a N/A engine. If so then any number of N/A catch can systems will work. JLT makes good ones, IMO, and they are reasonably priced. If your engine is N/A this one might work well: JLT Performance 3016P-C JLT Performance Oil Separators | Summit Racing

Mine is the ecoboost. I’m thinking I don’t drive it enough, about 7000 a year, to need one. I’ll just run a bottle of Techron through it every few fill ups. I use motorcraft everything in it, have new plugs, and the engine was cleaned out by the dealership. I only keep cars 3-4 years, so I don’t think that it’s something I need

 

[94Eddie]

Mine is the ecoboost. I’m thinking I don’t drive it enough, about 7000 a year, to need one. I’ll just run a bottle of Techron through it every few fill ups. I use motorcraft everything in it, have new plugs, and the engine was cleaned out by the dealership. I only keep cars 3-4 years, so I don’t think that it’s something I need

A turbobocharged engine pressurizes the crankcase and causes much more blowby from combustion than a N/A engine. Forced induction engines benefit from a catch can much more than N/A ones. You will be amazed how much oil and contaminated water it will catch in 7k miles. Also, the fact you had a massive carbon buildup problem indicates the engine is producing a lot of blowby that is being sucked into the engine through the PVC system. Especially considering the vehicle is a 2018 model. The PVC system is the source of the where most of the carbon originates that clogs injectors, is deposited in the combustion chambers and is source of all the thick sludge that gums up the intake tract. A catch can keeps a very high percentage of this contamination from entering the engine.

 

[Chickensandwich]

A turbobocharged engine pressurizes the crankcase and causes much more blowby from combustion than a N/A engine. Forced induction engines benefit from a catch can much more than N/A ones. You will be amazed how much oil and contaminated water it will catch in 7k miles. Also, the fact you had a massive carbon buildup problem indicates the engine is producing a lot of blowby that is being sucked into the engine through the PVC system. Especially considering the vehicle is a 2018 model. The PVC system is the source of the where most of the carbon originates that clogs injectors, is deposited in the combustion chambers and is source of all the thick sludge that gums up the intake tract. A catch can keeps a very high percentage of this contamination from entering the engine.

If these help preserve engine performance and increase life, why isn’t something so inexpensive, installed by the factory?

 

[CDW6212R]

I would expect three year old injectors to be in very good shape. One being bad is rare at that young age. I would just replace the one, unless something else suggested a greater need(injector recall or the vehicle not being driven for a year or more at a time). On older vehicles with long storage times, any rough running may end up being injectors, on those I'd replace all at once.

The secondary injectors of the new 2018+ Ford GDI's should greatly reduce the intake valve carbon build up. That was the sole reason for the new system, to inject fuel before the intake valves and keep them clean. So the dealer says there is/was carbon build up, did they say it was on the intake valves, or just on the other intake surfaces(intake itself) etc?

I would only worry about the intake valves, build up on those does eventually lead to the valves not seating properly, engine missing and poor running etc. The rest is just annoying from the PCV operation, not necessarily bad for the engine. Intake valve carbon build up requires removal of the heads to clean that out, and should have the valves removed and a new valve job done. I wonder how Ford has handled those head issues so far for the older(pre-2018) GDI engines?

I wouldn't mind a catch can, but I do not want one, they require constant maintenance. I would go to that as a last resort, after trying to improve the OEM baffling system in place(underside of valve covers typically).

 

[94Eddie]

The problem with not worrying about the rest of the intake tract is there are important components that can get gummed up like the throttle body, IAT valve etc. If most of the PVC oil is intercepted it makes the secondary injectors much more capable of keeping the intake valves clean over longer periods of time. The fact the OP had a carbon problem so early indicates the secondary injectors aren't capable of keeping the carbon deposits to a minimum on their own. My guess is there is likely too much blowby coming through the PVC system which is repsponsible for all oil entering the the intake tract. A catch can will greatly reduce the oil reaching the intake tract.

The secondary injectors in Ford's dual port system only deliver 5%-10% of the total fuel required to run the engine. This greatly limits their effect on keeping the intake valves clean since 90% of the fuel never comes in contact with the intake valves. Full time port injection cleans the intake valves using 100% of the fuel entering the combustion chambers which is why it is very effective at keeping the intake valves clean.

 

[94Eddie]

If these help preserve engine performance and increase life, why isn’t something so inexpensive, installed by the factory?

I think we can ask this question about a variety of parts and protective measures. Personally, I think automakers only care about building the cheapest vehicles (parts and engineering wise) possible that have high odds of making it to 100k miles without any major failures. Beyond this point they start to fall apart and see major repairs. This is called "planned obsolescence." 100k miles is the point where most extended warranties expire and their responsibilities to the owner ends. They are putting plastic parts everywhere these days to include oil pans on 4WD vehicles. Even the Ford trucks to include the Raptors. The new Explorers even have plastic drain plugs!

I read where one reason they can engineer in "planned obsolescence" is due to the accuracy of the software that is used to virtually stress test parts. They can design them to last just so long which in turn allows them to make parts as inexpensively as possible to reach the point of designed failure. Plus, it isn't in the financial interests of automakers to sell bulletproof vehicles that last for decades and/or several hundred thousands of miles. Planned obsolescence increases they repair income and forces drivers to buy new cars sooner.