Bad/ poorly installed helicoil insert cause stalling?

[Carl16]

Hi my name is Carl and i am a new member on the forum, I own a 2006 Ford Explorer XLT AdvanceTrac RSC 4.0 SOHC V6 with 93.000 miles on the odometer.

I bought the car used and after about a week I serviced the car ( in the first week the car had no issues ), the maintenance went well until, to my greatest surprise, a spark plug thread #1 cylinder turned out to be worn out ( damaged ) bummer.
So I had to fix the spark plug thread, via a tutorial I tapped, cleaned and placed a " save a thread helicoil long insert in the #1 cylinder.

After this the car remained with a issue, with a cold engine the car dies / stalls a couple of times ( about 4 to 7 times ), normally I can start it right away while driving i put the gear in neutral and then it usually starts up right again, sometimes I have to try 3 or 4 times before it starts up and then it drives like as if nothing is wrong I can drive for an hour without it stalling or dying on me.

The car has thrown the following codes in the past with my obd2 scanner on Forscan:

B1318
B1681-20
B1915
B2097
U0140
P0451
P1812
B1676
U0140-20
U1900-20
U2013
P1000

At this moment the cat shows the following codes:

P0451
P1000
B1676
U0140

In this post i would like to know if a bad/ poorly installed helicoil insert could cause the car to stall?

I have a more detailed post about this issue on the forum please see my other posts.

Saludos,

Carl

 

[Rick]

I don't think the helicoil is the problem. You could test it's seal by running a compression test and compare the helicoil cylinders to the rest, but again I don't think that's the problem.

 

[Bazz270]

Asking just for a case...what have you done with a helicoil locking tip? Broken and fall down to the engine maybe?


Genuine Helicoil brand has special no-tip insert for this application.

 

[Carl16]

I don't think the helicoil is the problem. You could test it's seal by running a compression test and compare the helicoil cylinders to the rest, but again I don't think that's the problem.

Hi Rick thanks for the tip i will do a compression test and i will come back to let you know if that was the problem or not.

 

[Carl16]

Asking just for a case...what have you done with a helicoil locking tip? Broken and fall down to the engine maybe?


Genuine Helicoil brand has special no-tip insert for this application.

Hi Bazz270, i bought this set from amazon: Helicoil 5334-14 Save-A-Thread Thread Repair Kit M14 x 1.25.
And I installed the long insert that comes in the set, I also put some locktite on the insert.
I hope that this is the no tip insert that you are talking about, if not could you explain to me what you mean by no-tip?

 

[Bazz270]

Yea
Thats the special one without the locking tip.

Regular loctite shouldt be used in spark plug fix applications ever because of low heat resistance (approx 120C only ) and high electric resistance (since the spark plug getting grounds or minus from valve head thread.)


No idea about threaded loctite cause all the DTCs but it might be a problem theorethically.

You can simply check thread conductivity or electric resistance using M14 bolt,prob and multimeter.

 

[Rcflyer330]

Hi Bazz270, i bought this set from amazon: Helicoil 5334-14 Save-A-Thread Thread Repair Kit M14 x 1.25.
And I installed the long insert that comes in the set, I also put some locktite on the insert.
I hope that this is the no tip insert that you are talking about, if not could you explain to me what you mean by no-tip?

lf you look up Helicoil images they typically have a tip/ tang that is used to install them then gets broken off after it's installed. looking at google images of the part number you gave yours doesn't have a tip/ tang so you are good there.

On the stalling part if there was a problem with the repair i would think it would just cause a misfire on cylinder #1. a single cylinder misfire is unlikely to cause the car to stall but it will run really rough. what i would do is use forscan and put the number of misfires pid (if you use the search function on forscan type NM) on the dashbord and see if the number goes up when the problem occurs. if it does then without turning off the car got to tests function and run the mode 6 monitored systems test scroll to the misfire section and see what cylinders are misfiring. none of the codes you have indicate a misfire though. You do/ did have a few voltage related codes maybe that could be causing issues but someone more knowledge than i will need to comment. Also since you have all the codes written down clear them in the vehicle and see what comes back then go from there.

 

[Carl16]

Yea
Thats the special one without the locking tip.

Regular loctite shouldt be used in spark plug fix applications ever because of low heat resistance (approx 120C only ) and high electric resistance (since the spark plug getting grounds or minus from valve head thread.)


No idea about threaded loctite cause all the DTCs but it might be a problem theorethically.

You can simply check thread conductivity or electric resistance using M14 bolt,prob and multimeter.

Hy Bazz270, i didn't know that i shouldn't use liquid loctite.. I think i remeber using the red one permanent.
I did not understand how to check electric resistance, do you mean checking the resistance between a M14 bolt placed in the #1 cylinder and the chasis of the car or the engine block?

 

[Carl16]

lf you look up Helicoil images they typically have a tip/ tang that is used to install them then gets broken off after it's installed. looking at google images of the part number you gave yours doesn't have a tip/ tang so you are good there.

On the stalling part if there was a problem with the repair i would think it would just cause a misfire on cylinder #1. a single cylinder misfire is unlikely to cause the car to stall but it will run really rough. what i would do is use forscan and put the number of misfires pid (if you use the search function on forscan type NM) on the dashbord and see if the number goes up when the problem occurs. if it does then without turning off the car got to tests function and run the mode 6 monitored systems test scroll to the misfire section and see what cylinders are misfiring. none of the codes you have indicate a misfire though. You do/ did have a few voltage related codes maybe that could be causing issues but someone more knowledge than i will need to comment. Also since you have all the codes written down clear them in the vehicle and see what comes back then go from there.

Hi Rcflyer330, thanks for the reply, will do so tomorow and will keep you updated what i found.

 

[Carl16]

Hi Rcflyer330, thanks for the reply, will do so tomorow and will keep you updated what i found.

Oh yeah, forgot to let you know that the engine runs pretty smooth, but definitely not rough.. and i am not verry familiar with forscan but will try tomorrow, these are the codes that come back after i cleared them:
P0451
P1000
B1676
U0140
I am actually surprised that the P0451 came back after replacing the EVAP fuel tank pressure sensor for a new one from Dorman.

 

[Bazz270]

Hy Bazz270, i didn't know that i shouldn't use liquid loctite.. I think i remeber using the red one permanent.
I did not understand how to check electric resistance, do you mean checking the resistance between a M14 bolt placed in the #1 cylinder and the chasis of the car or the engine block?

Exactly
But if none of the DTCs are misfire related ones maybe you should skip this check step.

About tank pressure sensor DTCs

Check for corrosion and clean fuel pump and sensor harness terminal (it is the same one for both of em) placed between fuel tank and passenger side chassis frame) then check passenger side engine bay fuel pump/sensor harness terminal (placed beneath/near aux heater pipes)

 

[Carl16]

Ok guys, did the compression test and got some solid results
#1 187 psi (helicoil cylinder)
#2 185 psi
#3 187 psi
#4 185 psi
#5 184 psi
#6 188 psi

I also measured the resistance of the helicoil insert and had the beep sound that there is resistance and it measured 0.2 ohms, what also are good numbers.

Also looked for misfires with forscan and it didn't show none misfires when the engine is running neither when it stalls, in the mode 6 system it says: value not ready at al 6 cylinders.

Did check for corrsion on the passenger side engine bay fuel pump/ sensor harness terminal and it looked good and clean, the fuel pump/ sensor harness between fuel tank and passenger side chasiss frame was not a succes, i could not get the connector off (disconnect it) it is really hard to get off also broke the retainer tab while prying in with a screwdriver.

Oh yeah, also got a new DTC as bonus: P0443 purge valve circuit fault...

Any idea's suggestions?

 

[Bazz270]

Multiply EVAP related DTCs are usually refered to harness concern.
You should try to eliminate the pump/sensor plug before you go on

 

[Carl16]

Hi guys, today i discovered that the plug to the purge valve (engine bay) wasn't connected properly (i guess when doing the compression test), when i plugged it in the P0443 and P0451 fault disappeared, will keep an eye on the P0451 because in the past that one would erase but came back.

Still couldn't get the fuel pump sensor plug off, sprayed some liquid wrench in the connectors but nothing... The only way to disconnect it would be by dropping the tank to get more room and grab it from an other angle, but that seems to me like a lot of affort just to check if the connector is ok.

P.S. Don't know if you guys read my other thread, it's more detailed in what i already did to the car, for example i replaced the fuel pump and the fuel tank pressure sensor, so the connector is new on one side.

Any other ideas/ suggestion on the stalling issue?