bad rattle

[jddanks]

Hi Y'all
My explorer has had a slight start up rattle for a while, it sounds like others have described as "wet gravel swishing around in a dustbin " sometimes its still audible when accelerating too (tho most of that rattle disapeared when i pulled off the heat shield from the exhaust), however , the other day i started her up to head home and there suddenly appeared a much louder rattle, it sounds like a loud tappet rattle, or id descibe it as very similar to the sound we used to get when we stuck a lolly stick into a pushbike spokes except more metalic, or the sound you here if you walk past metal railings and hold a metal pipe against them as you walk. This sound doesnt happen right at startup, it comes on after a minute or two, its as tho it starts when the oil starts warming up. Now my question is :- does this sound like a chain problem, or a lifter? and if it is a chain,, do you think just fitting one of the upgraded adjusters would cure it or is it a new chain guide cassette.

 

[BIGHVM]

The chain noise is not present on start up often, but as you rev it around 1200 rpm, after that it should not be present, unless its really on the way out, you would have heard this for a long time prior tho. I would start with the simple usual suspects, you have done the heatshield check also the exhaust joints after manifold, and the next section join , under the drivers door, if any of these leak, you can hear a rattle sometimes.
Make sure you have the correct grade of oil in there as the lifters depend on it also the chain tensioners in a big way, and have you done the oom12 kit as yet, the chain tensioners and the oil restrictor and upper inlet manifold seals?
All of these are diy jobs if you can chuck a spanner around and look cool (as I do)!

Anyway- let us know mate asap.

 

[janolsson]

Hey jd
You could start with a new oil tensioner bolt (Either front or rear if you can pinpoint the noise) But i have pulled out some old ones and the new ones don't seem significanly stronger. The updated front one is to reduce start up rattle. As you have a constant rattle i'm guessing one of the guides has let go.
One fairly quick way to tell is to drop the lower oil pan to see if there are any bits of plastic in it. With a photo of the bits i may be able to tell you which guide its from.
If you check out a couple of my threads there are a few photos of the guides etc. ("engine rebuild" and "should i cut my losses")
If it is just the front you can do it with the engine in yourself on a budget but if the rear has gone you will have to pull the engine out.
HTH

 

[jddanks]

thanks for the advice, ill try listening to the engine with an iron rod an see if i can pinpoint the source, and when i get time ill drop the sump. What has me kinda doubting its the chain causing the noise is that it seems too rythmic unless its clattering the casing at the same point everytime it goes around, altho that said it does seem to quieten off a tad on overun and then come back under light load
it almost sounds like an old diesel cept louder

 

[jddanks]

one other thing, are there 2 chain tensioners or 3? cos ive seen posts elsewhere where they mention front rear and jack,

 

[janolsson]

There are two of the piston bolt type oil filled tensioners, one for each of the cam chain cassettes. These are easy to replace as they are just wound into the outside of each head. Then there is a guide and tensioning guide (Uses leaf springs and updated version available) at the front for the crank to jackshaft chain. Lastly for 4x4 engines ie all uk spec there is a guide and tensioning guide for the balance shaft to crank chain.
This thread has on post #52 an exploded diagram with US part numbers that will give you an idea.
Exploded diag of engine
2000StreetRod has a few informative threads about the chains etc so do a search for his stuff (advanced search lets you select users).
If you decide to tackle this yourself you you have options about how deep you want to go. You can do the front jack tensioner w/o the timing tool kit but if you have to do either cassette you will need some way to set the timing and the otc-6488 tool kit is the easiest option.
Any q's on this just ask as i have done 2 engines.
All this said H may be right and it might not be the chains. Make sure you have 5w30 oil as any heavier and the tensioner bolts won't work properly nor will the lash adjusters.
HTH

 

[PHaTGRoB]

When I bought my Ex it had two main mechanical rattles. The timing chains were one and these were sorted later but the other was the exhaust which created a loud metallic rattling similar to what you're describing and which started mostly once the system started to warm up. However, other than knowing it was to do with the exhaust I can't remember exactly what the problem was and how I fixed it. Having a memory as good as a goldfish is what dreams are made of!

 

[jddanks]

When I bought my Ex it had two main mechanical rattles. The timing chains were one and these were sorted later but the other was the exhaust which created a loud metallic rattling similar to what you're describing and which started mostly once the system started to warm up. However, other than knowing it was to do with the exhaust I can't remember exactly what the problem was and how I fixed it. Having a memory as good as a goldfish is what dreams are made of!

sure wish you could remember, cos i went over it today with a metal rod listening to see where the noise is comming from, and basically the engine sounds fairly normal, no loud knocks or rattles from the heads, same goes for the stuff running off the serpentine belt, and the sound sounds worse from under the bulkhead and when standing by the front doors than it does at the front of the hood, so im suspecting the exhaust, although i tried sticking a lump of wood where i could and levering it around and it doesnt seem particularly loose or leaky except at the very back, and thats not where the noise is from. the very back tailpipe hanger is broken and it does rattle against the chassis when parked uphill but thats a totally differant rattle to the one I'm moaning about. funny thing is it only appears when warm and then if you thrash it it goes off untill either you let the gas off or the revs drop, then it comes back with a vengeance, its as tho play is being taken up.(or it could just be the engine drowning it out)

 

[PHaTGRoB]

Hi JD. I'll try and have a look underneath when I get home. However, I'm suffering from man-flu so can't promise that I'll be up to grovelling around!

 

[mpntball2012]

Hey guys. Kinda resurrecting an older thread (only a few months, ha) but I had a question. Just like JD had in his first post, I've got a rattle that starts a minute or so after the truck was started. It sounds as if it were a rattling heat shield, but I've checked all those and nothing seems out of place. This only occurs ever so often and at at a 700rpm idle. If I bring it up to 1000-1200 it goes away. When it does, you can hear the rattle at initial startup, goes away, comes back a minute later, and then goes away after a few minutes of driving. Whenever it does it while I'm driving is at idle. What gives?

May be a little confusing, mostly cause I don't know exactly how to describe it. Ask and I will clarify Thanks!

 

[BIGHVM]

have you checked the joint in exhaust just under drivers door, I had a replacement exhaust fitted by quickfit, and its forever coming loose at that point! Best way to find such a rattle is to get under it and bang the exhaust with your hand hard along its route- that shows them up. I have also had the heatshield go on the cats and that seemed ok till I did the bash test....just rip them off and dont park in tall dry grass after a long run!!!

 

[mpntball2012]

Not yet, but I will when I get home. I'll make sure to stay away from long dry grass if I remove the cat shields too! So do you think that the timing chain isn't a factor in my situation?

Edit: Well I guess we'll find out if I can't find anything in the exhaust. I do in fact need a full exhaust replacement... too many leaks to count or locate them XD

117,500 on the truck btw.