Brake issues with 97 Explorer XLT 4x4

[Advising Elf]

I recently replaced the ball joints on a 1997 Explorer XLT 4x4, using the very helpful post on the TT&T forum, and in the process, cracked a brake line. The pre-formed brake line is no longer available from Ford, and even if it was, I wouldn't want to put it in because it's in a stupid place (see the TT&T post for more info). I was unable to do it myself, so I took it to a local mechanic who made a new line and installed it. I drove the truck over there almost brakeless, and since I got it back, the brakes have been acting funny.

I replaced the brake fluid and bled them until new fluid came out, but they are still weird. They are a bit spongy, and every once in a while you get a strange vibration and oscillation in the pedal, accompanied by some noise. The brakes work, but they are not full strength.

In driving the vehicle to the mechanic, I had FULL brake pedal travel, all the way to the floor. My guess is that I scraped up crud and corrosion in the master cyclinder, and this is causing the problem. My questions:

1. What do y'all think?
2. Do you think that this might have messed with the calipers, too?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Wray-Wray]

the tone rings are cracked in your hub assembly's would be my guess.....change your hubs there is a great video and a few how-to's on this site....i had a similar problem with my 99 mountaineer.....they were about 120 each for my truck... i had a "spongy" brake pedal and the pedal would buck up and down accompanied by a sound...which was my abs kicking in....my ABS light NEVER WENT ON so i think you may be in the same boat...... there not terrible to replace..... i think like 3 hrs and i did them.....and i did and oil change in that time frame as well

 

[Wray-Wray]

read this thread top to bottom, in and out lol and you will be good to do it on you own!

 

[Advising Elf]

the tone rings are cracked in your hub assembly's would be my guess.....change your hubs there is a great video and a few how-to's on this site....i had a similar problem with my 99 mountaineer.....they were about 120 each for my truck... i had a "spongy" brake pedal and the pedal would buck up and down accompanied by a sound...which was my abs kicking in....my ABS light NEVER WENT ON so i think you may be in the same boat...... there not terrible to replace..... i think like 3 hrs and i did them.....and i did and oil change in that time frame as well

I had no brake problems at all prior to the ball joint service. Do you think I knocked something out of whack taking the spindle off the control arms? They were stuck on pretty good.

I was assuming it would either be a master cylinder or caliper issue.

 

[jremington59]

You may have gotten air into the ABS system.

 

[Wray-Wray]

I had no brake problems at all prior to the ball joint service. Do you think I knocked something out of whack taking the spindle off the control arms? They were stuck on pretty good.

I was assuming it would either be a master cylinder or caliper issue.

its very possible you did......it happened to my buddy's explorer when we did all four ball joints....the hubs get really hot obviously after the grease wears away and it warps the tone ring and can in some cases crack them just from heat.....after a butt-load of heating and cooling cycles the tone rings get fragile and it only takes one good whack to crack them.....

 

[Wray-Wray]

You may have gotten air into the ABS system.

not likely if he took it to a shop with even a shred of reputation they wouldn't get air into the system.....unless they ran the master cylinder dry....but then they would of had to bleed the whole system.....which would get rid of any air....

 

[Advising Elf]

not likely if he took it to a shop with even a shred of reputation they wouldn't get air into the system.....unless they ran the master cylinder dry....but then they would of had to bleed the whole system.....which would get rid of any air....

Actually, I had a shop that I'm not fond of do the brake line for me. I had little choice since they were right around the corner and I had almost no brakes. However, I bled all four brakes until new fluid ran through (after they said they had bled them, too), and there didn't seem to be any air in the brake lines. Is there a special bleeding procedure for the ABS?

 

[Wray-Wray]

Actually, I had a shop that I'm not fond of do the brake line for me. I had little choice since they were right around the corner and I had almost no brakes. However, I bled all four brakes until new fluid ran through (after they said they had bled them, too), and there didn't seem to be any air in the brake lines. Is there a special bleeding procedure for the ABS?

i don't believe that there is...someone who knows better can correct me...but i replaced the brake line in the front of my truck last year from the master on down to the calipers bleed the **** outta my system.....and it works great...i firmly believe your problem is in your tone rings

 

[Advising Elf]

i don't believe that there is...someone who knows better can correct me...but i replaced the brake line in the front of my truck last year from the master on down to the calipers bleed the **** outta my system.....and it works great...i firmly believe your problem is in your tone rings

The vibration is not in the front end, just in the brake pedal. It pushes back against your foot, strong enough for the pedal to come back up, then releases, then pushes back up, and repeats several times. This is accompanied by a noise that coincides with the pedal movement. Also, it doesn't do it every time. I don't see how this is related to a problem in the front locking hubs.

 

[n2epv]

To confirm it's the ABS acting up, pull the ABS MAXIfuse in the panel under the hood. The ABS light will stay on if you got the right fuse. You will have full brake function with the fuse out, just no ABS - if the pedal weirdness goes away - that was it.

Up here in rust country, tone rings/sensors die pretty fast, so this is a common thing - pull the ABS fuse and keep driving as-is.

 

[Advising Elf]

To confirm it's the ABS acting up, pull the ABS MAXIfuse in the panel under the hood. The ABS light will stay on if you got the right fuse. You will have full brake function with the fuse out, just no ABS - if the pedal weirdness goes away - that was it.

Up here in rust country, tone rings/sensors die pretty fast, so this is a common thing - pull the ABS fuse and keep driving as-is.

Thanks.

BTW, what is a "tone ring" anyway. Is it part of the ABS?

 

[jremington59]

If the pedal is pushing back up against your foot then the ABS is the problem. If you pull the ABS fuse/fuses in the box under the hood they won't push back against you anymore.

There is a special procedure for bleeding the ABS unit. If you search you should be able to find it.

 

[Wray-Wray]

The vibration is not in the front end, just in the brake pedal. It pushes back against your foot, strong enough for the pedal to come back up, then releases, then pushes back up, and repeats several times. This is accompanied by a noise that coincides with the pedal movement. Also, it doesn't do it every time. I don't see how this is related to a problem in the front locking hubs.

you will not have vibration in the front end if its abs......just the pedal....and yes it will be speratic there is no rhyme or reasoning with it....pull your abs fuse in you panel.....located in your engine bay.... and see if that stops it.....change your hub assembly on each side int he front my friend.....im confident it is the hubs that are causing your problem.....

 

[juancho316]

how did it go Advising Elf with your brakes. i have the same thing going on with mine and i just changed upper/lower ball joints,brake pads, and rotors. that darn noise is still happening looks like i will try some of the stuff i just read. thank God for this forum.

 

[Advising Elf]

Went the cheap route.

I took the vehicle in and had a complete brake bleed done (including the ABS system), and it didn't help.

So, I pulled out the fuses for the ABS, and now everything is fine.

I may fix the "tone rings" at some point, but we'll see.

 

[juancho316]

Hey elf which fuse number's did you take out and leave out. Please reply when you can and I Will try it after you reply.

 

[Advising Elf]

Hey elf which fuse number's did you take out and leave out. Please reply when you can and I Will try it after you reply.

Check your Owner's Manual. It will show you the fuse locations. Each year is different. In my 1997 there were two in the under-the-hood fuse box. At the dealer, the mechanic showed me the locations in a 1998 Shop Manual, and the whole fuse box was different in my '97.

 

[juancho316]

just pulled abs fuses in engine hold and it stopped making that noise, Thank you. Now is it possible to replace just the abs sensor and not the whole thing. Thanks again.

 

[Advising Elf]

just pulled abs fuses in engine hold and it stopped making that noise, Thank you. Now is it possible to replace just the abs sensor and not the whole thing. Thanks again.

It's not necessarily the sensor. All I know about it is what I've read in replies to this post, but it may be a problem with the parts that the sensor is reading from, the "tone rings". Of course, you could always change the sensors and see if that helps, but my guess is that it'll just be money down the tubes.