Brake Problems - Soft Pedal

[sgjii]

I have been a hobby mechanic for many years and feel confident in my abilities. I have completed countless brake services in the last 20yrs on US Domestic, Euro and Asian. I have never experienced the heartache and issues like a 4th Gen Explorer brake system.

My first experience was a 2008 Explorer Sport Trac. I didn't even crack open the brake system but compressed calipers for removal and wheel bearing replacement. Afterwards, the brake pedal was spongy, and felt like it bled off and sunk with the engine running though solid without the engine running. I bleed and flushed the fluid to no avail. I ended up replacing the master cylinder and re-bleed and had the same results. After driving and getting the ABS to engage things felt a lot better but I always feel they are mediocre at best. That is when I learned about the ABS Service Bleed with a scantool. It made no better improvement than engaging the ABS. I have lived with the marginal braking for 20K miles...

Enter my next 4th Gen Explorer, a 2006 Limited V8 with 186K that I bought non-running. Got the running issues fixed and went to work on the metal on metal brakes. After new rotors and pads. I cleaned up the calipers and flushed the old dark fluid. Got out my NEW scantool with the ABS bleed function and went through the process. All should be great? Same crap as the Sport Trac only worse. Good pedal with engine off, spongy and badly sinking to the floor pedal, like the master cylinder was bad. Odd that the pedal would not bleed off like that with the engine off but it would if the engine were running.

I replaced the master cylinder had the same results of spongy sinking pedal. I said screw it and drove it anyhow... I was scared going down the driveway hill but it straightened up within a couple of miles on the back roads and has been fine for the next 100 miles. I am still baffled by it. I am starting to hate the 4th Gen Explorer brake system, it just shouldn't be that hard to service, bleed brakes and have a solid confident pedal. I now have 2 used master cylinders on the shelf that are likely fine.

Can anyone shed some insight? Is there something unique in the design of the system? Something I am missing? Some service procedure that cures this all right up?
I have not experienced this with my earlier Explorers 97, 98, 99 nor my Rangers 99, 03, 04 nor my GM, Benz, VW, Porsche, Audi, Jeep, Chrysler, Subaru to name some others I own/have owned..

Thanks, Stephen

 

[ThunderbirdSport]

I haven't liked the feel of my brakes either. I'm going to put on new quality rotors and some good pads (Hawk, maybe) to try to get a little more stopping out.

And I think the pedal generally feels like **** too. When I first bought it, I was still driving my 98 5.0, first time I got back in it, I hit the brakes too hard and said "damn, lotta difference..."

 

[2010 Eddie Bauer]

I put on some Powerstop aftermarket brakes and rotors, and it drastically improved the braking for my 2010 Eddie Bauer.

 

[boominXplorer]

There's a tsb on the power pedal assembly causing a squishy pedal. I've seen it in a few 4th gens with and without the power pedals. I think it's a power booster issue.

 

[ThunderbirdSport]

There's a tsb on the power pedal assembly causing a squishy pedal. I've seen it in a few 4th gens with and without the power pedals. I think it's a power booster issue.

Excellent. Yeah my pedal is squishy...it's almost as if there's air in the system but I've bled it all 3 times and nothing but decent fluid ever came out, no air, or anything else.

I'll be looking up this TSB. I also want a little better stopping power, but I'll definitely visit the TSB's info first. That's a lot of the problem..the jello feel.

Give it a good pump or two and it's firm like it ought to be.

(that's what she said) haha

 

[sgjii]

Excellent. Yeah my pedal is squishy...it's almost as if there's air in the system but I've bled it all 3 times and nothing but decent fluid ever came out, no air, or anything else.

I'll be looking up this TSB. I also want a little better stopping power, but I'll definitely visit the TSB's info first. That's a lot of the problem..the jello feel.

Give it a good pump or two and it's firm like it ought to be.

(that's what she said) haha

If you come up with a TSB, will you please post the number or link?

 

[Mbrooks420]

Excellent. Yeah my pedal is squishy...it's almost as if there's air in the system but I've bled it all 3 times and nothing but decent fluid ever came out, no air, or anything else.

I'll be looking up this TSB. I also want a little better stopping power, but I'll definitely visit the TSB's info first. That's a lot of the problem..the jello feel.

Give it a good pump or two and it's firm like it ought to be.

(that's what she said) haha

Have you tried triggering the ABS several times and re-bleeding? Air can get trapped in the abs module. You can force the abs on, or set it to cycle like things like FORScan.

 

[sgjii]

Have you tried triggering the ABS several times and re-bleeding? Air can get trapped in the abs module. You can force the abs on, or set it to cycle like things like FORScan.

I went through the ABS bleed procedure with my X431 Scantool. It cycles the ABS pump. I thought it was going to be the answer, but it did no better than forcing ABS actuation while driving on the local country road.
Ultimately, the 2006 Explorer squared away with driving it and brakes feel fine. The 2008 Sport Trac still feels like crap 20K miles down the road.

 

[El Duque]

same boat. I had a 2008 and now my 2010, brakes on both are absolute garbage

 

[willied]

Make sure none of the guide pins on any of the calipers are stuck. Not that this is your problem, but it will definitely affect braking performance.