"Check Engine" light = $260 (+tax) mass air flow sensor??

[Private_Joker]

Hi all,

I have a 93 exp sport.

The "Check Engine" light came on a week ago. It is sometimes goes off, but is on most of the time.

The truck runs fine, just idles a little rough. It will stall if you leave it idling long enough.

I took in to "a" shop. They charge $95 just to read the PCM codes.

Then they tell me I need to replace the 'mass air flow sensor' -- and this sensor costs $260 plus labour - so the whole job incl reading the codes would be a nice $450 to 500....

Does this sound like a rip off or what?
I read some posts on the "Check Engine" light, were people stated the sensor is what is telling you what's wrong. - So changing the sensor is not going to solve the problem -- that's like changing the fire alarm in a burning building.

It seems like a LOT of $ & I think I smell a rip off. - What do you guys think?
Any ideas on else I should do or try?

Thanks,
PJ

 

[andy stein]

Try cleaning the MAF first. Use the search function to find the thread.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

You can purchase your own code reader for as little as $30 on ebay.

You can purchase your own new mass airflow sensor for $100+core from www.autozone.com

You definitley got ripped off!

 

[aldive]

Have them tell you the code that they read, then post it here.

 

[geebob]

Mass airflow

I am not convinced that your idling issue is related to the mass air flow sensor. Not too sure what is going on but if you ever do need to replace that sensor got to http://www.carpartstreet.com/ Around $90

I have a 93 exp sport.

The "Check Engine" light came on a week ago. It is sometimes goes off, but is on most of the time.

The truck runs fine, just idles a little rough. It will stall if you leave it idling long enough.

I took in to "a" shop. They charge $95 just to read the PCM codes.

Then they tell me I need to replace the 'mass air flow sensor' -- and this sensor costs $260 plus labour - so the whole job incl reading the codes would be a nice $450 to 500....

Does this sound like a rip off or what?
I read some posts on the "Check Engine" light, were people stated the sensor is what is telling you what's wrong. - So changing the sensor is not going to solve the problem -- that's like changing the fire alarm in a burning building.

It seems like a LOT of $ & I think I smell a rip off. - What do you guys think?
Any ideas on else I should do or try?

Thanks,
PJ[/QUOTE]

 

[00XLS]

I thought on OBDI vehicles you could pull the codes by using a paper clip to have the computer flash them via the check engine light? if not I'd def invest in a code reader, for a 93 they shouldn't be to much. I bought one for my OBDII vehicle and its helped out.

 

[Private_Joker]

Cleaned MAF - No difference

Ok,
Finally got those dang screws off and cleaned the MAF.
My "check engine" light is still on and the engine runs rough while idle.

I read some other posts about MAF and rough idle and many mentioned the product: Sea Foam.

I'm going to try it (seems everyone thinks its great).

Does anyone know which Sea Foam Product to use:
Sea Foam "Deep Creep"
or
Sea Foam "Motor Treatment"

or both?

I was on the company's web site and it "sounds" like both products are useful for rough idle issues.

Thanks,
PJ

 

[aldive]

Sea Foam "Motor Treatment"

 

[SportTracDude02]

I had this same problem with my Sport trac. It actually ended up being the "gas tank vapor sensor container" (I cant remember the exact name, sorry) but the light went away. try getting that replaced and see if it goes away

 

[MrShorty]

I thought on OBDI vehicles you could pull the codes by using a paper clip to have the computer flash them via the check engine light? if not I'd def invest in a code reader, for a 93 they shouldn't be to much. I bought one for my OBDII vehicle and its helped out.

this is correct. See www.dalidesign.com/hbook/eectest.html I would be interested in seeing what trouble codes the computer is still putting out.

 

[kdogg212001]

even if it was your maf that shop does jsound like they were trying to rip you off. i mean you can buy a maf. for like around $200 so they were getting like $60 right there and then to install it there is only like 4 to 8 bolts!!! i would have told them to screw off!!! but thats my opinion!!

 

[Glowin97x]

the MAF airsensor is an easy install do it yourself and save on the labor (if thats even what you need)

 

[Private_Joker]

Well, I bought a code reader and these are the only codes I got:
#157: (c) Mass Air Flow Sensor fault, low voltage
#158: (c) Mass Air Flow Sensor fault, high voltage

I cleared the continuous memory codes and the "check engine" lite came on again.

I guess I'm SOL regarding the MAF!... :roll: :roll:

 

[MrShorty]

Not necessarily. It's important to remember that trouble codes point to circuit faults, not just sensor faults. Could just as easily be a fault in the wiring between the MAF and the PCM. For instance, in this case, it seems interesting that the MAF signal was both low and high, rather than one or the other. This suggests to me the real possibility that you have a wiring fault rather than a sensor fault.
Since you cleared the continuous memory codes last time, the first thing I'd do is hook your code reader up and see if you have the same CM code(s).
2nd thing I'd do is run the KOER test. It can be easier to diagnose problems from the KOER test, because these codes represent "hard faults" rather than faults that have existed in the past.
3rd thing I would do is go to the library and browse through Mitchell and find the appropriate circuit "pinpoint" tests so I could diagnose the MAF circuit properly.

 

[Private_Joker]

Thanks for your advice.

My "Michell", Are you referring to stuff from Mitchell Instrument Co?
http://www.mitchellinstrument.com/

Sry -- From the detailed advice you've already given, I can tell I'm asking a dumba$% question :roll:

Not necessarily. It's important to remember that trouble codes point to circuit faults, not just sensor faults. Could just as easily be a fault in the wiring between the MAF and the PCM. For instance, in this case, it seems interesting that the MAF signal was both low and high, rather than one or the other. This suggests to me the real possibility that you have a wiring fault rather than a sensor fault.
Since you cleared the continuous memory codes last time, the first thing I'd do is hook your code reader up and see if you have the same CM code(s).
2nd thing I'd do is run the KOER test. It can be easier to diagnose problems from the KOER test, because these codes represent "hard faults" rather than faults that have existed in the past.
3rd thing I would do is go to the library and browse through Mitchell and find the appropriate circuit "pinpoint" tests so I could diagnose the MAF circuit properly.

 

[MrShorty]

No, the Mitchell I'm referring to is a company (I think in San Diego) that publishes professional repair manuals. Most public libaries that I've been to have them in the reference section. I expect a big place like Toronto (assuming Ontario) would have copies of these manuals (or equivalent) lying around in a library somewhere. A university library might have a better selection.
A link to a PDF copy of the EEC-IV portion of the manual for a '95 Explorer (in this case it should be almost the same as your '93) is posted over in the Explorer forum at www.ford-trucks.com search for "gtest.pdf", and be sure to set the search options so it will search back into last summer.
Or go to ebay and buy a CD with the factory service manual on it (I think they are listed at $15 or something).

 

[MacGyver]

my check engine light on my 94EB came on and off (mostly on long trips) for almost 4 years. i cleaned the MAF and TBS and it still came on it wasnt till i failed my inspections (2 times) that i finally broke down and chaned both O2 sensors. my X has never run better and the light hasnt been on since, even after 6 hours of driving

 

[Glacier991]

MacGyver: The difference here is we have a definite code pointing to the MAF part of the system. You direct your energy where the exact code sends you. That is much better than wildly guessing and replacing parts that are working fine.

Private Joker: You can also unplug your MAF and let the computer estimate voltages. How does it run then ? What code did it throw?

 

[Private_Joker]

- I was reading another thread on MAF cleaning that suggested (at least I think it did) that you disconnect your car battery completely "before" cleaning the MAF? -- to reset the memory?

Does this make sense? - or did I intrepret it incorrectly?

I didn't know that before. The instructions with my code reader state that you put the reader on 'hold' while to codes are coming 'in' from the engine in order to clear the existing codes...

Thanks to everyone for their earlier help. I've been doing a lot of body work and am now returned to my possessed MAF.

 

[MrShorty]

Two different operations described here. One is clearing only the continuous memory codes as described by your code reader's instructions. As mentioned, this only clears the codes in continuous memory, but leaves all of the computer's other memory intact (called "keep alive memory"). The EEC-IV system uses what they call "adaptive strategy," which simply means that the computer makes adjustments to it's engine management algorithm based on perceived "wear and tear" of sensors and components. By disconnecting the battery, you are allowing the computer to "forget" what the MAF used to look like, and start with a clean slate. It can then "adapt" to using a clean MAF instead of a dirty one. It's a good idea to disconnect the battery whenever an EEC-IV component is cleaned/replaced to reset the keep alive memory.