CopyKat's Copy Cat B4

[OldRedB2_84]

looking good joel!

 

[410Fortune]

my 6" coils give me 4.25" of lift as close as I can measure and they did sag just a bit after the 5.0L conversion, mainly due to the weight of the AOD-EW transmission

I will be ripping it all out soon enough and when we get to coilover time, spring rates and shock tuning we will find out! I am planning 350# spring rate if thats what I have now because it is so nice and soft on and off road.

I also have the ARB compressor and my Duff front bumper adding weight as well as the front fiberglass, all AC components are also on the truck, but I have never worried about taking it to a scale and I am pretty sure my unsprung weight up front is more then 350# with 35" MT's, steel wheels, plated beams, and skid plating.

 

[CopyKat]

My extended rear shock mount.

 

[410Fortune]

ah in front of the axle eh?

I have my pass side one like this and the shock tabs are rock hungry

BII gas tank makes it tough to put them both behind

Nice work!

 

[CopyKat]

ah in front of the axle eh?

I have my pass side one like this and the shock tabs are rock hungry

BII gas tank makes it tough to put them both behind

Nice work!

I rotated the axle mounts up so that they didn't hang down too much. I still have to lob off the old sway bar mounts.

Forward helps cut down the axle wrap. as you trying to compress the shocks some with the rotational force. It's not much but they do absorb some.

Now if I could find a way to outboard them, and have them clear the tires......................

 

[410Fortune]

Thats why I have kept my one in front one in back setup still
I will be going through the floor with some smooth bodies, outboard a bit, unless I go 4 link ($$$$$$$$ permitting)

 

[CopyKat]

Here is the latest and greatest. I even washed it the other day.

 

[CopyKat]

I got the dual battery setup done.

Mounted my new CB antenna. I hope this one doesn't get ripped off, like the last one.

Touched up some of the rust spots with a new coat of primer.

 

[general x]

Damn that thing looks badass! It has a rugged bush truck look. I like ^^

 

[CopyKat]

New location for temp guage and switch for my electric fan. Just need to install the guage. Voltmeter is just there to fill the hole.

Superunner kit installed

Front tires are not off the ground yet. The whole truck was sliding to one side so I stopped.

Who said you need Bling Heims at the radius arms? The bushings barely move.

Linkage works good. You don't need cut beams for travel.

 

[410Fortune]

You are right you dont need to cut beams for travel, the cut and turn is to reduce the amount of drop bracket needed and to reduce bump steer

Looks good I am going to guess 14" of travel or so with your setup and the superrunner.
The steering is not optimum but it sure drives and cycles alot cleaner with the Superlift kit then it did with the inverted y linkage hua?

Looks like your passenger beam could use some clearancing for the axleshaft
Are your coils retained to the bucket? Do the shocks still ahve some travel in them at full droop?

just curious, looks good, how's it drive?

 

[exploder619]

what kind of coil buckets did you use? I am interested in doing a new coil bucket location and shock location for the front.

 

[CopyKat]

You are right you dont need to cut beams for travel, the cut and turn is to reduce the amount of drop bracket needed and to reduce bump steer

Looks good I am going to guess 14" of travel or so with your setup and the superrunner.
The steering is not optimum but it sure drives and cycles alot cleaner with the Superlift kit then it did with the inverted y linkage hua?

Looks like your passenger beam could use some clearancing for the axleshaft
Are your coils retained to the bucket? Do the shocks still ahve some travel in them at full droop?

just curious, looks good, how's it drive?

I wouldn't go as far as say it reduces bump steer. If anything it makes it worse.

I noticed a decrease in road wander. So it's definatly an improvement.

Travel is actually around 15" (at the hub) and could be closer to 19" with the right coils. The tires were not off the ground yet in those pictures. the jack was starting to lean to one side so it was getting a bit unstable so I stopped. I know it will max out the jack. I trimmed the bottom of the window but never touched the top yet. I may trim a bit if I start to see marks on the axle shaft. Yes the coils are retained to the beam. There is a loop in the lower bucket that I spin the coil 1/4 turn into. It's retained at the top with the F150 loop. The rear mounted 12" stroke shocks still have full travel + more. The front ones are maxed out. I would need 13" travel ones or 14" travel ones to make full use of all the droop with the right coils. The way it is now the shocks work perfect with the 5.5" EB coils I'm running

what kind of coil buckets did you use? I am interested in doing a new coil bucket location and shock location for the front.

The upper bucket is an F150 TTB bucket I cut the shock mount off and made a Hoop to mount the shocks up higher. The F150 TTB bucket is 3" taller than the RBV bucket.

 

[410Fortune]

makes it worse??

Um no

I wish I had video of my TTB working (flexing) before and after the cut and turn
and then before and after the Super runner kit

Bump steer has been reduced tremendously
bump steer was the enemy, This is what the TTB suffers from the most, especially on the trail it can get your truck over on its side faster then anything else. I have minimal bump steer in my rig, until I get a swing set steering setup putting the tie rods in phase with the beams and build my next set of beams (more extension and ball joint relocation) I will still have some but its not nearly as drastic as bolt on drop bracket kits.

A simple cut and turn gets you an extended wheel base, more ground clearance down the middle, and the weak drop brackets are eliminated. With 6" of lift coil my TTB sits at stock ride height angles, my setup has 18" of usable wheel travel at the hub. Of course it has to be done properly......final ride height (lift amount) has alot to do with how well the truck will handle.





I will flex it out and get some pictures so we can compare.

 

[CopyKat]

makes it worse??

Um no

I wish I had video of my TTB working (flexing) before and after the cut and turn
and then before and after the Super runner kit

Bump steer has been reduced tremendously
bump steer was the enemy, This is what the TTB suffers from the most, especially on the trail it can get your truck over on its side faster then anything else. I have minimal bump steer in my rig, until I get a swing set steering setup putting the tie rods in phase with the beams and build my next set of beams (more extension and ball joint relocation) I will still have some but its not nearly as drastic as bolt on drop bracket kits.

A simple cut and turn gets you an extended wheel base, more ground clearance down the middle, and the weak drop brackets are eliminated. With 6" of lift coil my TTB sits at stock ride height angles, my setup has 18" of usable wheel travel at the hub. Of course it has to be done properly......final ride height (lift amount) has alot to do with how well the truck will handle.





I will flex it out and get some pictures so we can compare.

18"??? That real or what you think? Mine is 14" REAL, I would need a set of custom coils to work properly with my setup.and I can get 20" EASY.

My coils are almost 3" longer than yours and they are softer.

Don't get me started on cut and turn. This is my build thread. You're not going to convince me, with jibber and babble about the pros and cons of it.

I've done the steering geometry thing too. Swingset isn't going to get you anything better than the superlift can provide you. And with a cut and turn your making it worse.

Anyway I'm not getting into a TTB war with you. It's left me banned from a couple sites. Because the Homos don't understand that they are not going to convince me a cut and turn axle better, than the noncut and drop brackets.

 

[exploder619]

what did you bolt the second pair of shocks on the fron to? You have one in the stock location and one bolt to what?

 

[410Fortune]

You wont get 20 without clearancing your beam, u joints and more. A swing set will gain you alot more travel then the limited superrunner kit will do, it also keeps the tie rods in phase with the beams and eliminates bump steer.

I am not trying to battle you on the internet man just sharing what I have learned, but so be it I know you have been banned before and to me that says something about you, not the "****'s" with opinions and thoughts who view your threads.

Forgive me for sharing, I have continually told you your build looks great but apparently all you hear is whats in your head, ignore what shops like AutoFab or Camburg have done with the TTB. I am thankful you have chosen to share your build here in OUR forum, I will not litter your thread with any thoughts again, I will just simply put a smiley face here and there and continue to tell you the work you have done looks great (even if you despise my TTB setup, it works for me and it works very well even locked with 35's aired down to 12 psi on slick rock).My front end has never failed me and my current setup was only a middle of the road build, something I learned from and have BIG PLANS to re-do, I will have 23-24" of usable travel when I am done, but without also matching it in the rear it would be worthless to go further until it can be all done at once.


I would not ban you for having opinions or sharing what you have learned, I am not that kind of moderator and even if you disagree with me it effects me in no way shape or form, in fact I encourage it, brainstorming is how things get done. I am not vain enough to think I know it all in fact just the opposite is true, I only know what I have learned with hands on experience and research, I am FAR from an expert so I dont pretend to be something I am not.

When measuring wheel travel dont forget my track width is 3" wider then yours, built into my beams and made up for with a custom outer shaft on the passenger side.
The cut and turn does have benefits and can be set up to work very well, but it's of course not everyones cup of tea. There are MANY ways to increase travel in the TTB, many approaches to gain similar results.

 

[CopyKat]

You wont get 20 without clearancing your beam, u joints and more.

I am not trying to battle you on the internet man just sharing what I have learned, but so be it I know you have been banned before and to me that says something about you, not the "****'s" with opinions and thoughts who view your threads.

Forgive me for sharing, I have continually told you your build looks great but apparently all you hear is whats in your head, ignore what shops like AutoFab or Camburg have done with the TTB. I am thankful you have chosen to share your build here in OUR forum, I will not litter your thread with any thoughts again, I will just simply put a smiley face here and there and continue to tell you the work you have done looks great (even if you despise my TTB setup, it works for me and it works very well even locked with 35's aired down to 12 psi on slick rock).My front end has never failed me and my current setup was only a middle of the road build, something I learned from and have BIG PLANS to re-do, I will have 23-24" of usable travel when I am done, but without also matching it in the rear it would be worthless to go further until it can be all done at once.


I would not ban you for having opinions or sharing what you have learned, I am not that kind of moderator and even if you disagree with me it effects me in no way shape or form, in fact I encourage it, brainstorming is how things get done. I am not vain enough to think I know it all in fact just the opposite is true, I only know what I have learned with hands on experience and research, I am FAR from an expert so I dont pretend to be something I am not.

When measuring wheel travel dont forget my track width is 3" wider then yours, built into my beams and made up for with a custom outer shaft on the passenger side.
The cut and turn does have benefits and can be set up to work very well, but it's of course not everyones cup of tea. There are MANY ways to increase travel in the TTB, many approaches to gain similar results.

I'll clear up a few things that you don't know. And answer some of your questions.

For me 20" is just a set of coils away. I have 14" travel shocks on order for the front mounts and Just need to find the right springs. 20" would be easy to get with coilovers but I don't want to go that route because you don't see any with an actual coil and shock. There are only a few dedicated guys that stick with TTB and make it work. You only get so far with stock, off the shelf, RBV stuff then your SOL. I chose a different route when doing mine and I feel I'm on the right path to achieving my goal.

All my front Joints have been clearanced for maximum movement. HD joints with full circlips are holding them together. I have a lockrite in the front so I did a trim on the slipspline with a spring for a C-clip eliminator. The beam window has been clearanced, to the extent of my coils-bumpstops. My brake lines are run in such a way that travel is not a consern.

As far as ignoring what Camburg or Autofab have done....No I don't ignore them. If I followed their lead I would have Fox coilovers, 5" extended beams, and I'd dump a whole lot more $$$$$$$$ into other go fast parts. Extended beams is how they can claim 20" travel. With a full width you could get that easy. Don't say your beams are 3" wider than mine, but if you said they were 1" wider then you would be more on track. If you look you will see that my pivots have been re drilled.:

I do run an articulated CAD file so that I can find out what I would need for the travel I have. I also have a steering setup in the CAD file so I know what works and what doesn't. Unfortunatly I have never even thought of comparing the cut and turn to the stock beam. Through the full 20" travel at the hub. Maybe I should. Maybe some will see how Fawked up the travel is compared to stock beams.

3" extra free length in coil will gain you almost 5" of travel at the hub and 6" at the wheel. Also remember I'm running a 7" rim right now. I'm waiting to get the D44 TTB outers done so that I can run the 15x8's I have.

What works for you and what works for me are 2 different things. I agree that both our setups are different and they both work.

 

[410Fortune]

sweet back on track

thanks for the further explanation of your setup.
What kind of spring are you using in the slip yoke? I know alot of guys before me used chevy sb valve springs but I found them to be the wrong size and too stiff.

 

[CopyKat]

sweet back on track

thanks for the further explanation of your setup.
What kind of spring are you using in the slip yoke? I know alot of guys before me used chevy sb valve springs but I found them to be the wrong size and too stiff.

I'm using an external spring. I had to trim off almost 3/8" of the spline to stop it from bottoming on the cap at the yoke. There would have been no way to get a spring in there. I'd of had to trim even more off.

One side of the spring bottoms out on the female end of the joint and the other side is retained by a snapring that stops at the neckdown and the boot covers it all up and helps retain the spring. I don't know where the spring came from I just grabbed one that just fit over the spline.