Custom Upper A-Arms, 3" Spindles

[King$nake]

Wow, I did not realize there was a suspension specific forum.

I have a 98 Explorer 2WD 5.0 V8. I was planning on going with some 3" EDGE Spindles (Fabtech) and a 2" TT, with (4) 33x12.50's. Was planning on going with warrior shackles in the rear.

However today I came across this thread:

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums//showthread.php?t=245930

Got me thinking, where would be the best place to go to get some custom uca's made? That would give me the extra lift & travel I would want and I wouldn't have to do the torsion twist. I was told that you can get these made for about $500/set. Also, how much can I expect to spend on bushings, etc.

Thanks for your help

 

[King$nake]

Or is there a company out there that makes upper arms for this year of explorer? Thanks

 

[carlover]

control arms will give you no lift. The lift is accomplished with the TT or the spindles. I can get you a set of uniball tube upper arms for $550 shipped.

 

[King$nake]

Ok thanks for the reply, sorry I guess I was mistaken. So what the upper arms do is basically just give you more travel in the front, correct?

 

[carlover]

Yeah more travel and the uniballs are stronger and last longer then ball joints. Even with the uppers a stock explorer isnt going to get more then about 9" of travel. But for a simple build the uppers and a good revalvable shock is a good combo.

 

[King$nake]

Thanks Sean, appreciate the input. You mind taking a look at that link in the first post? The dude with the Explorer says he just had spindles and custom uppers. It looks like more lift than that, does that look right to you? Maybe its the glass up front that makes it look bigger, plus he is runnig 33"s

Also, you do work on explorers for pay?

 

[carlover]

He probably has a small TT also. I ran 33's with a spindle, arms and a TT for awhile. I tossed on a king 2.5" shock and it worked pretty well.

I dont do work on customer trucks, but i have a very good friend that does. He's the one that builds the uppers, and he's also build my whole truck which is pretty much a race truck now.

 

[carlover]

Here's a link to my build thread if you wanna check out various stages and things you could do.
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums//showthread.php?t=216036

 

[King$nake]

HOLY CRAP. What a beast that thing is, I cant imagine the time and effort dumped into that truck, nicely done man, nicely done. That is one of the sickest explorers I have ever seen, some serious fab work.

Thanks again for your help, I have a ton more questions but for now Im just going to buy 4 33x12.50 w/ some 15" rims (going to try and find a set used somewhere) and I am going to get those fabtech 3" edge spindles, buy some glass front fenders, and go from there. Not sure if I should install the parts as I get them or just wait and install everything all at once. I was thinking bilstein 5100s for the front shocks but I might as well spend a few extra bucks and get some kings or foxes, atleast for the front. will figure that out later.

Thanks again man

 

[mounty71]

IMO the upper arm isn't really necessary unless you want to run a large diameter shock. I do agree though that it would be nice to have them because of the strength of uniballs. But i'm running stock upper arms (one-piece passenger upper) with the Moog problem solver balljoints, which are replaceable high-angle balljoints. If you use limit straps to limit stress on the balljoints, and bumpstops to prevent bottoming out too low, that's $550 saved on the arms that you can use on shocks or air bumps. My front end is setup pretty much how you described in the first post, and with a good valvable shock it should work well for most people on a DD/weekend offroader.

 

[mounty71]

One thing I just noticed about the explorer you linked to is that the upper arms have heims to mount to the frame, not bushings. I think the heims are a great addition, even more valuable than the uniballs. You can weld washers on to the upper arm mounts on the frame instead of using the alignment cams, and then use the adjustment of the heims to get it into alignment. My alignment cams are constantly moving when i go offroad, so it would be nice to eliminate that.

 

[danwaters]

You can get 11" of wheel travel with a custom control arm. With the edge/explorer lift spindle I would strongly suggest running a 7/8 heim as opposed to a 1" uni ball. The top bore on the spindle is just over 19mm so you can tap the top for a 7/8 heim. You drill out the pinch bolt hole and run a size larger as well.

To get the 11" of travel some trimming of the lower arm has to be done. More specifically the lip around the LCA ball joint area. My buddy who built my front end has done it to two Explorers and with 2.0 shocks and a air bump off the lower the front end did pretty damn good. And instead of bushings on the upper control arms, you'll want to use 3/4 heims to make the alignment much easier and you wont get the typical folding of the upper arm mounts in when someone cranks on them too hard. hat's not good.

 

[mounty71]

I was gonna say, 11" with a stock width front end? But I've never seen/heard of anyone trimming the lower arm before. And will that work with stock steering?

 

[danwaters]

With an upper arm on heim/uniball 11 is possible. It would be better to run a 7/8 on the outer tie rod but you can get 10 out of the stock outer tie rod. You trim the lower and do some very mild plate work.

 

[King$nake]

Ok, how much more cash am I looking at forking out for a 7/8 heim over a uniball for the upper?

My immediate plans were to get new balljoints for the LCA's and then go with those BTF uppers w/ uniball and new bushings, but I definitely want to go with whatever is a more durable option. I really want to make this truck as bulletproof as possible even though most will be street driven (for now anyways). I was told not to go with heim since it is mainly a street vehicle, but if the heim is stronger I would rather go with that. thoughts? thanks.

Oh ya, any specific balljoint I should use for the LCA's? My stock balljoints are shot, have about 3/4" of free movement down there, sucks.

 

[danwaters]

Whoever told you to not go with heims doesnt really know what they are talking about from the sounds of it. The bushings will be louder (squeaky) and require much more maintenance over heims. The heims will also last much , much longer. With the heims on the frame side of the upper arm alignment is much easier as well like I told you before. A 1" uniball and a 7/8 heim are pretty comparable as far as cost. In my opinion it is easier and cheaper to run a 7/8 heim and tap the top of the spindle balljoint bore to fit the heim. The heim will thread right in there and you wont have to pay for the cost of a custom machined bolt/pin to go through the uniball. It's really preference, but my preference is the heim. it may make the upper arm a little more intricate in the design process but looks much better.

 

[WidgetTrac]

Sounds logical to me, where can I get some?! I tried the link to BTF but it's not working anymore. Anyone know who made the ones linked in the first post?

There's a place called AirBagIt that makes a lot of air suspension stuff, mostly lowrider but also lifts, and they have 2" lift Edge spindles that have a differently shaped upper section than fabtech, and use f150 outer bearings for stronger snout. The spindles are $300 and they also sell them together with upper arms for $600, but they look like regular greasable race bushings and weld-in ball joints instead of uniball and/or heims.

There's a Co called Lift USA that has spindles and arms that look just like the AirbagIt ones, except they sell in a front/rear/shocks kit. There's also a co called Canuck Motrsports that makes edge spindles, and Coleman racing has affordable shaft-mount UCA's in many sizes which could probably be mounted between the tabs, but they're made like the airbagit arms instead of like the custom arms i've seen here.

out of the three spindles listed above, I still can't find the the tech info i'm looking for. Aside from the issue of cost, what I really want is to keep the wheels tucked in the fenders, so I want to find out which spindles allow the most backspace with a 15" wheel, along with keeping the increase in track with to a minimum (all edge lift spindles are wider, I think). Unfortunately, the tech people i.ve talked to use a lot of phrases like "I think", "it's probably not...", and "we recommend 17" wheels in the factory offset", and of course "I'll have to check into that - is there a number where I could call you back?"

So... if anyone has experience with different makes of spindles, or arm info, or really any info but especially if you've actually tried different wheels and found the max backspace before the wheel binds on the spindle, please post!

 

[danwaters]

Lift spindles most of the time add a little track width to a truck because in order to keep the King Pin Inclination correct width must be added. Its maybe a inch perside at the most so a 15x7 wheel with a 3.75 backspacing will work. I ran the stock explorer wheels that were 15x7 with my old fabtech spindles and the outer tie rod just kissed the corner of the wheel so I added a 1/4" hub space to correct that.

 

[WidgetTrac]

My stock '01 trac wheels are 16*7, 4.5" BS, so with 3.75" BS plus 3/4" add'l spindle width, that's 1.5" extra width per side, even if I stayed with a 7" wide wheel...

An 8" wide wheel would add another 1/2" per side, and the 10" width would add another 1.5" per side for a total of 3" per side. A 15*10" wheel on the stock spindle with 5" backspace would only add 1" per side, which I like better. And I get to keep my bigger brakes... just need to get longer shocks, space the bumpstops, custom uppers, rod-end outer tie rods, titanium knutter valve, billet muffler bearings, chromoly poly multifluxors, and I don't even wanna know what else!

But I want to keep it as narrow in the front as I can - it already looks too skinny in back!

 

[danwaters]

My stock '01 trac wheels are 16*7, 4.5" BS, so with 3.75" BS plus 3/4" add'l spindle width, that's 1.5" extra width per side, even if I stayed with a 7" wide wheel...

An 8" wide wheel would add another 1/2" per side, and the 10" width would add another 1.5" per side for a total of 3" per side. A 15*10" wheel on the stock spindle with 5" backspace would only add 1" per side, which I like better. And I get to keep my bigger brakes... just need to get longer shocks, space the bumpstops, custom uppers, rod-end outer tie rods, titanium knutter valve, billet muffler bearings, chromoly poly multifluxors, and I don't even wanna know what else!

But I want to keep it as narrow in the front as I can - it already looks too skinny in back!

You can go with a 16x8 with a positive offset if youre trying to keep it narrow. 1.5 inches wide per side isnt bad