Dealership is lost, please help to figure out this problem

[bbmoose]

***Update***Dealership is lost, please help to figure out this problem

* Info
2000 x 4door auto 4x4
62,000 miles
Stock
Brand new rims and Tires(less than 50 miles on both

*problem
The famous 50+ mph shake when turning the streering wheel either way the wheel shakes so bad its jumps out of your hand.

*fixes so far
New upper and lower control arms and bushings
New ball joints
New sway bar and links(all bushings too)
Brand new tires and rims
tested the rims and tires seperatly and load forced balanced them twice
New power steering pum and lines
New whole rack
New tye rod ends
3 alignements
Frame checked for straightness at body shop(the dealers own body shop)
They have swapped 2 sets of rims and tires from brand new vehicles and it still does the exact same thing.
Collecting dust at shop for 4 weeks plus now

They are completly stumped now

They even have gone so far as to hook up a special machine that records the harmonics of a vehicle when driven then download it to the computer.

They have checked and rechecked the hubs and everything else in the whole front end atleast 4 times now.(i have been there 3 times they went over everything to show me after the rack and control arms were replaced)

PLEASE some has to have a better idea on what the real problem is besides "its Normal" or "trade it in"

Finally the best way i can describe the problem is in laymens terms.
Its like if it had a steering stabilizer that was removed or blown out on older vehicles that used a steering stabilizer.

Any and all help is thankful

 

[410Fortune]

If the wheel shakes that bad I cannot believe they cannot find the problem
How long has it been doing this? I mean it jsut started one day?

Any other dealerships in the area?

How much $$$ are you into them so far?

 

[trucku]

WOW..thats wierd.

What was the results of the harmonics test?

Maybe you got bad serpentine belt that slipping or jumping. Maybe you got pulley our of round and at speed causes belt to affect powersterring pulley.????
Wish I could be better help.

Good luck in finding problem.

 

[410Fortune]

Have they inspected the steering column, u joints and shaft themselves?

I assume the whole truck shakes, not jsut the wheel.

 

[bbmoose]

yes the whole truck shakes.(the steering wheel and is just the major visual thing i can see and feel i guess thats why i pointed that out).
Infact the whole front end feels like its shaking
brand new serpintine belt and tensioner.
It has been this way since i got the truck but was told it was because of bent rims(i saw the 3 that were bent myself) thats why i replaced the rims and tires.
Thankfully i have an extended warranty (bought x with 60000 miles on it a yr or so ago,just havent driven except for around town because of this problem.
).
they have picked up most of this except for rims and tires and frame check and 100 detuctable .

Keep the ideas coming PLEASE.

 

[budwich]

As a rookie ford owner, don't have much to offer other than is it possible that it is stuck in 4w drive is some funny form.

Perhaps you might be able to hook up a small video camera (and light) under the hood to check things as you go down the road.

I would start disconnecting things to see if you can remove the problem temporarily during a test. For instance, try get them to remove the power steering pump in some fashion (different belt, or an idler) and see if that changes things from that end. On the drive train side, see if they can disconnect / remove the front wheel drive connection to the transfer case so that the front wheels are totally free (don't how to do that, but have seen posts where people appear to have done that for other reasons). Hope the ideas help.

 

[410Fortune]

the pump wont cause this violant vibration, in fact I dnt suspect the steering rack or pump, especially since it is new.

is this a AWD truck?

 

[bbmoose]

it is awd.
they replaced the rack,lines and pump thinking it was the problem.
Also any time u hit a crack,pebble or the slightest uneven surface it REALLY vibrates at any speed.
But at low speeds turning doesnt effect it.Only at speeds 55 and up if you turn the wheel it jumps all over when turning the steering wheel.

 

[410Fortune]

Front end CV joints?

Remove the front D shaft and drive for a bit, not too far can be bad for the AWD t case

see if it helps

 

[bbmoose]

thats a good idea. i will see if they will do that about removing the driveshaft and then driving it.

 

[gavin]

Front end CV joints?

Remove the front D shaft and drive for a bit, not too far can be bad for the AWD t case

see if it helps

removing the front d-shaft won't cause any major issues.. I've been doin it for ohhhh, about 4-5 months now and haven't had any problems.
That would definately help determine if it's in the front drivetrain though.
And I agree with Fortune, if it's only when turning, they should check/replace the half shafts

 

[410Fortune]

Gavin, your T case is not designed to run without the front shaft.
The energy that is not going anywhere is being trasnfered into heat, and can eventually effect your T case.

This refers to AWD t cases.

This has been covered on this site

 

[bender]

You describe what i had when i had air in my power steering lines after i got my rack replaced. since you got yours replaced its worth a shot. sounds like you may have bigger issues but it could be something as small as air in your lines.

 

[410Fortune]

Air should come out through the resevoir (low pressure side) just by turning the wheel back and forth???

Unless the rack and pinion is way different.

 

[bbmoose]

sorry if what i have posted hasnt came off clear.

It is not air in the system.
!. it was doing this for over a few months.
I had the power steering system flushed twice before it went into the shop this time.
2. they replaced the rack,hoses and pump while trying to track down the original problem of the shimmying and vibration.
3. not better or worse since they did it and even power flushed the new system and let it sit for 2 days to allow gravity to release any air bubbles that might have remained.

BUT thanks for all the suggestions and such and keep them coming.
ALso if i drive it without the drive shaft in it for say a total of 6 miles and during that time get it up to 60mph with that hurt anything?
I need to go that far to get to an interstate where i can get up to speed and then get it back home.Thats if i "borrow it back" for a night just to pull the driveshaft to check

 

[410Fortune]

No it will not hurt anything, I am saying over pro longed periods of time, and it is just in theory, not sure if anyone has actually destroyed a T case by removing the front shaft.


Everything from the wheels to the differential pinion will still be spinning, but will be spinning because the tires are turning it, not because the driveshaft is turning the tires. If it goes away then this points to gears, cv shafts, and or driveline issues.

 

[exploded99]

You said you had bent rims. Takes a helluva hit to bend rims, so I think you have to treat this truck as if its been in an accident. Anythings possible.

You have replaced the whole front end, with the exception of the steering knuckles, the front diff assembly, and front axles.

At this point I would be looking for bent steering knuckles and damage to the frame crossmember where the diff assembly mounts up.

I am kind of thinking bent knuckles bacause of the bent rims and that might give you some wierd steering geometry when turning.
When you turn, the top of the front tires cambers (tilts) to the direction you are turning, and toe-in changes as well. I've not heard of any way to check all these angles at full wheel lock - if you suspect this problem you just put in new parts. Could be something out there I have not heard of tho.

Since this truck was repaired before you bought it, you have no real idea of what alignment change had to be made when those rims got bent to get it back into alignment but it is possible to get a good alignment with a bent knuckle, yet have wierd geometry in turns.

I also think the dealer will poo-poo this idea, but who cares?

 

[gavin]

Gavin, your T case is not designed to run without the front shaft.
The energy that is not going anywhere is being trasnfered into heat, and can eventually effect your T case.

This refers to AWD t cases.

This has been covered on this site

I guess I missed all those posts... lol.. well when I changed the fluid in my t-case about a month ago, the fluid didn't look burned up or anything.. so unless it did somethin with the fluid in the viscous coupler, I dunno. I haven't noticed any ill side-affects yet anyway

 

[bbmoose]

the rims that were "bent" were walking side to side alittle when spun alone themselves on a wheel balancing machine. Not bent like in a normal impact.
Also like i said the vehicle was placed on a frame machine and is straight as an arrow,also they checked everything looking for any damage that might occur in an accident.The original rims and tires are fine when put back on the vehicle and in fact they balance up just fine. My father-in-law has a 99 x and is using them now as we speak.The rims were questionable in the begining of this mess so thats why they were replaced in hopes it was the problem before i took it to the shop.

Thanks for all the imput so far. I atleast have the dealers attention again on this.I even was at the dealership on the shop supervisures computer and showed him this site and everyones imput so far lol

 

[boominXplorer]

My guess would be to look into the CV's, Differential and transfer case.