Deep Base Type Noise - Tires?

[Pedro504]

I'm speechless - as noted in the report below from my selling dealerships service team. According to FORD the acoustic issues are a feature, not a defect.

 

[peterk9]

That's very unfortunate. Have you driven another Explorer with different tires?

Peter

 

[Mbrooks420]

That's very unfortunate. Have you driven another Explorer with different tires?

Peter

With that dismissive treatment from the dealer Ford would never see a single penny for me again. Why reward a company for absolute garbage engineering and zero accountability on a 50k vehicle? Maybe when they’re driven to the brink of bankruptcy by their deplorable business methods they’ll go back to the drawing board and produce something that isn’t a trash can on wheels stuffed with buggy bells and whistles.

 

[peterk9]

My "trash can on wheels stuffed with buggy bells and whistles" has been an absolute pleasure to drive and with no issues. The same applied to my previous 2011 and 2017 Explorers. Also excellent service from the dealer. Haven't had to go to Ford/Lincon for any issues yet though.

Peter

 

[Mbrooks420]

They’re getting worse with every generation. You’ll eventually get a crappy one.

 

[hbalek]

They’re getting worse with every generation. You’ll eventually get a crappy one.

I still can't stop staring at my very attractive vehicle and love the way it drives! The multiple bugs and defects not to mention rapid wearing of components that should last at least 5-7 years are disheartening on such an expensive ride.

 

[SteveAZ]

As Peter notes, no issues with the Lincoln. I recently drove the Nautilus and there's a world of difference between that and my Platinum. We're seriously considering making the move to Lincoln, either through a buy back or a trade. BTW. it's Ford saying no, not the dealer.

 

[Pedro504]

I'm speechless - as noted in the report below from my selling dealerships service team. According to FORD the acoustic issues are a feature, not a defect.


View attachment 422423

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As I indicated in the prior post my brand new 2021 Platinum with oem Pirelli 275/45 R21 had a very harsh ride, very loud thumping/slapping tire noise over road surface joints and imperfections and a deep base rumble under 50 mph especially upon deceleration.
With the aid of member comments and insights on this forum I decided to install winter tires on 18" wheels. The 18" wheel size is available on the XLT and Timberline trims. The oem wheels from Ford are very expensive so I decided to go the aftermarket wheel route.
I installed 4 new Bridgestone Blizzak Winter tires (P265/65 R18) on 18" aftermarket American Eagle rims from TireRack.
The results have left me speechless again!
The vehicle is now almost dead silent over the same road surfaces.
There remains a slight deceleration rumble at speeds under 30 but in general the 65 profile tires (aspect ratio) have vastly improved ride quality and significantly improved interior acoustics. I suspected the low profile Pirellis were contributing to the rough ride and unpleasant cabin acoustics based on input from my local tire dealer and members on this forum. My local Dunn Tire dealer looked at the vehicle but unfortunately could not locate a reasonably priced 18" aftermarket wheels to my liking.
I surmise the approximate 40% increase in sidewall height and the Blizzak rubber formulation is quiet for two reasons. They are not generation noise and they are significantly reducing the transmission of road surface induced vibrations and noise.
Here's a comparison of specs for both tire/wheel sets. The Blizzaks are listed first followed by the oem Pirellis.

 

[peterk9]

I have the same Blizzak DM-V2 winter tires for my Aviator but in the OEM size. It's the first time I didn't buy the 18" wheels and just have the tire mounted on the OEM wheels. I didn't want to get caught again with wheel size changes as I lease my vehicle and usually have them 3-4 years.
Had the Blizzak DM-V1 tires before. Very happy with them.

Peter

 

[SteveAZ]

I'm wondering whether buying just summer tires (if there is such a thing anymore) with the foam pads would improve the situation. The foam versions are supposed to offer a much quieter ride. The tires on my 2020 Platinum self-sealing, which may contribute to the problem.

 

[Pedro504]

As a follow up I called Pirelli headquarters in Georgia (800-747-3554) today. I was wondering if Ford was using noise cancelling technology tires and perhaps mine were defective.
My tires do not have the PNCS label.
The Pirelli customer rep indicated the oem 275/45 R21 tires on my 2021 Explorer Platinum (build date Sept 9, 2021) are not PNCS (noise cancelling) and said if the PNCS label is not molded into the tire it's not noise cancelling.
I'm working with my dealership to take back or swap the oem wheels/tires for something not 21" and not Pirelli.
This is what the label looks like if you want to check your tires.

 

[peterk9]

........................................................
I'm working with my dealership to take back or swap the oem wheels/tires for something not 21" and not Pirelli.
...................................................

I spoke with my dealership's manager about them possibly replacing 21" wheels with 20" on a proposed future buy and he said that they can't do it. The reason is that when the vehicle leaves the factory, it leaves with a specific build sheet (specifications) and any changes to that would affect the warranty in the event of a claim regarding the changed items or issues resulting from that change.

Peter

 

[Pedro504]

I spoke with my dealership's manager about them possibly replacing 21" wheels with 20" on a proposed future buy and he said that they can't do it. The reason is that when the vehicle leaves the factory, it leaves with a specific build sheet (specifications) and any changes to that would affect the warranty in the event of a claim regarding the changed items or issues resulting from that change.

Peter

Peter,
In that case am I wise to keep the oem wheels/tires and put them back on before I bring the vehicle in for any warranty or recall or TSB related service during the 3 year/36k miles period?

 

[peterk9]

Why not keep working with the dealer to see what they can do or what they say about my dealer's comment? In my case, I was talking about perhaps leasing a Nautilius when the Aviator lease is up. The package I wanted comes with 21" wheels and I told him I really didn't want those and preferred 20" wheels. In reality, I think any chances of warranty-related issues would be very minimal. There are members here that can't wait to modify their vehicles, even within the warranty period.

Peter

 

[against_The_Wind]

***************************************************************************************************************************************************************
As I indicated in the prior post my brand new 2021 Platinum with oem Pirelli 275/45 R21 had a very harsh ride, very loud thumping/slapping tire noise over road surface joints and imperfections and a deep base rumble under 50 mph especially upon deceleration.
With the aid of member comments and insights on this forum I decided to install winter tires on 18" wheels. The 18" wheel size is available on the XLT and Timberline trims. The oem wheels from Ford are very expensive so I decided to go the aftermarket wheel route.
I installed 4 new Bridgestone Blizzak Winter tires (P265/65 R18) on 18" aftermarket American Eagle rims from TireRack.
The results have left me speechless again!
The vehicle is now almost dead silent over the same road surfaces.
There remains a slight deceleration rumble at speeds under 30 but in general the 65 profile tires (aspect ratio) have vastly improved ride quality and significantly improved interior acoustics. I suspected the low profile Pirellis were contributing to the rough ride and unpleasant cabin acoustics based on input from my local tire dealer and members on this forum. My local Dunn Tire dealer looked at the vehicle but unfortunately could not locate a reasonably priced 18" aftermarket wheels to my liking.
I surmise the approximate 40% increase in sidewall height and the Blizzak rubber formulation is quiet for two reasons. They are not generation noise and they are significantly reducing the transmission of road surface induced vibrations and noise.
Here's a comparison of specs for both tire/wheel sets. The Blizzaks are listed first followed by the oem Pirellis.

View attachment 422625

View attachment 422621 View attachment 422634

Pedro,

Glad to hear you found a significant improvement. I have been paying a lot of attention to the sounds in my Timberline and I definately have the bass sounds.

It is almost always under 30 mph and ironically the smaller the crack in the pavement the more bass noise is heard. It is bothersome to me, but I have very noise sensative ears. I'm assuming what you were experiencing with the 21 in wheels had to be much worse than what I'm hearing in my Timberline.

We obviously have the same tire size now, but different purposed tires which creates a little bit of a variable.

Are you running these tires at 35 psi?

I have found going lower or higher by 4 to 5 psi with my tire setup has not changed anything.

 

[Pedro504]

Pedro,

Glad to hear you found a significant improvement. I have been paying a lot of attention to the sounds in my Timberline and I definately have the bass sounds.

It is almost always under 30 mph and ironically the smaller the crack in the pavement the more bass noise is heard. It is bothersome to me, but I have very noise sensative ears. I'm assuming what you were experiencing with the 21 in wheels had to be much worse than what I'm hearing in my Timberline.

We obviously have the same tire size now, but different purposed tires which creates a little bit of a variable.

Are you running these tires at 35 psi?

I have found going lower or higher by 4 to 5 psi with my tire setup has not changed anything.

I'm running 32 psi (cold) in the Blizzaks.
Yes, the 21" oem setup was very loud. The oem 45 aspect ratio tires transmitted/magnified all the road noises. Ford decided to not outfit the explorer with Pirelli's PNCS (noise cancelling) tires. Perhaps that would have helped.
As I indicated I still have a slight rumble when decelerating or with the foot off the gas pedal under 30 mph. I agree the smaller the road imperfection the louder the rumble.
A metallurgist will tell you steel has much better damping effect than aluminum, due to its mass. Damping absorbs vibrations and therefore there is less sound transmission. These vehcles have a lot of aluminum and perhaps that's contributing to the overall poor acoustics.

 

[against_The_Wind]

I'm running 32 psi (cold) in the Blizzaks.
Yes, the 21" oem setup was very loud. The oem 45 aspect ratio tires transmitted/magnified all the road noises. Ford decided to not outfit the explorer with Pirelli's PNCS (noise cancelling) tires. Perhaps that would have helped.
As I indicated I still have a slight rumble when decelerating or with the foot off the gas pedal under 30 mph. I agree the smaller the road imperfection the louder the rumble.
A metallurgist will tell you steel has much better damping effect than aluminum, due to its mass. Damping absorbs vibrations and therefore there is less sound transmission. These vehcles have a lot of aluminum and perhaps that's contributing to the overall poor acoustics.

Interesting point on the aluminum. Just odd it happens at slow speeds. At higher speeds, sounds are nicely dampened in my experience.

Im running the 35psi (cold, forgot to put that) since it's what Ford put on the door jamb for this tire size. And although I tend to adhere to that in most cases, I'm not afraid to deviate a few psi up or down.

I just didn't seem to achieve any benefit, particularly with the bass sound, so staying with the 35 for now.

 

[against_The_Wind]

I'm running 32 psi (cold) in the Blizzaks.
Yes, the 21" oem setup was very loud. The oem 45 aspect ratio tires transmitted/magnified all the road noises. Ford decided to not outfit the explorer with Pirelli's PNCS (noise cancelling) tires. Perhaps that would have helped.
As I indicated I still have a slight rumble when decelerating or with the foot off the gas pedal under 30 mph. I agree the smaller the road imperfection the louder the rumble.
A metallurgist will tell you steel has much better damping effect than aluminum, due to its mass. Damping absorbs vibrations and therefore there is less sound transmission. These vehcles have a lot of aluminum and perhaps that's contributing to the overall poor acoustics.

In reference to the noise you hear when decelerating, do you think it could be the exhaust? I notice my exhaust to have quite a deep rumble to it and I'm noticing that may be contributing to some of the base noise from just deceleration and not road imperfections. But I have the 4 cyclinder engine, If I recall correctly the Platinum get the V6 as standard and so I don't know how much different your exhaust tone is.

When I start my car in the garage and put it into reverse or drive, the exhaust it quite deep and resonates to a point of being slightly uncomfortable. When I rev the engine, it get a little high pitched but as the rpms get come down, I notice a deep base noise.

 

[Pedro504]

In reference to the noise you hear when decelerating, do you think it could be the exhaust? I notice my exhaust to have quite a deep rumble to it and I'm noticing that may be contributing to some of the base noise from just deceleration and not road imperfections. But I have the 4 cyclinder engine, If I recall correctly the Platinum get the V6 as standard and so I don't know how much different your exhaust tone is.

When I start my car in the garage and put it into reverse or drive, the exhaust it quite deep and resonates to a point of being slightly uncomfortable. When I rev the engine, it get a little high pitched but as the rpms get come down, I notice a deep base noise.

The Platinum has the V6 as standard and probably has different exhaust system than the 4 cylinder. Frankly I'm at a loss to explain the low speed deceleration noise. I'm hoping we will eventually learn the cause and have a fix.

 

[Pedro504]

Significantly reduced engine noise inside the cabin by installing a Dynamat hood liner under the oem hood insulator.
I fabricated longer nylon retainer clips from the oem retainer clips by cutting off the short stem, drilling a hole in the original head and inserting a long nylon retainer.
Dynamat Hoodliner