Fan busted.. any suggestion? (maybe electric?)

[Maniak]

Yea, it took me 30 minutes to figure out how to get that thing to work the 1st time.. and someone even told me about it.. but until you see it, it just doesn't really make sense.

~Mark

 

[SwaintaN]

so the universal kit sucks... came with like 4 wrenches... but got it off only busted up my knuckles like 5 times...

 

[SwaintaN]

since i started this thread, tell me more about elc fans, just have a few ideas in my head and they go around the elc fan. like how do they install? thread it into a plenum, radiator probe? what kinda wiring goes into etc

 

[Xeek]

i have a controller that has a wire tapped into the stock ecm temp sensor(2 wire sensor to the left of the t-stat). and im thinking of using a difference fan once someone else figures out which works better with our engine. chevy hhr isnt that great off-road wise.

 

[SwaintaN]

here is what im trying to accomplish. i was gonna clean and reuse the a/c rad, but it was busted beyond repair and now sitting on my scrap trailer... sooooo.. gonna get one about same size, and use it for the tranny cooler so i can eliminate the two smaller ones and just do one bigger one in place of the old a/c rad, to eliminate the ones in front, then install elc fan and eliminate the old fan and clutch (i know this means new belt; again). this way i can install lights behind the grill and not interfere.

also since i eliminated a/c drag and this will eliminate drag from fan as well...

im fine with them turning on at the same time as the stock system

when you say you just spliced into the wires, which one (remember im not car swavvy, i learn as i go, so pics are even better)

i also understand this will eliminate the intake shelf from fan shroud, im gonna make a customer "shelf" for it to sit on...

im mainly confused on the wiring issues... and best choices.. i found a dual push/pull set up 10" each fan that does 1050 cfm(sp) each and super thin.

this is of course if i dont do v8 conversion, still will prob do elc fan, so trying to get ALL THE INFO i can

 

[Xeek]

do you mean you want an elec fan for the radiator or for tranny cooling? or both?
if you were talking about tranny, yea anything would work.

i would just get a large oil cooler instead of an ac condenser. and i would keep one of the stock tranny coolers and make it an oil cooler. and leave the 2nd stock one as a tranny cooler with a fan on it, maybe have it go: tranny>stock lines into coolant radiator>stock small cooler with added fan>large cooler in place of ac condenser>back to tranny

 

[SwaintaN]

i was gonna put the elc fan where the stock fan so it does rad...

for the tranny i have two small ones, the stock and after market

well that empty space were the a/c rad was, is where im wanting to just put one big one for the tranny instead of two small, yeah its gonna be a standard cooler not a used a/c rad

how do you do oil cooler?

 

[Xeek]

oil filter sandwich adapter. have 2 3/8s lines coming off your oil filter and to a cooler.
i vote large cooler for tranny, stock tranny cooler for tranny, and the small silver one for oil. put a fan on the stock tranny one.

the a4ld just sucks with bigger tires(as do most trannies) and strains it til it overheats. gearing the axle properly usually lowers the temp enough, but you still need to watch the temp.


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HDA-205/

 

[SwaintaN]

1050 for each fan will be enough rotation of air to compensate for eliminating the stock fan?

i take it mudding, puddle hoping, field playing if that helps for information

edit: add: yeah i definitely got the bigger tires and stock gears

 

[Xeek]

what stock fan? the one that attaches to the water pump?
you need that fan. or an electric one. and itll need to flow a lot higher then that. more like 2500rpm+
then a 2nd smaller one on the tranny cooler

 

[Maniak]

You have 2 choices for reading temp to control the fan. Engine coolant temp and Radiator temp.

Personally, I like to read the outgoing radiator temp since its the Fan's job to keep the coolant coming out of the radiator cool and the job of the thermostat to keep the motor up to temp.

Some people like to read the temp of the coolant coming out of (or at) the motor. As I see it, when you do that your trying to control the engine temp with the Fan and so is the thermostat. Also, it puts you behind the curve since you don't want the fan(s) to be running all the time you need the setting high enough that it doesn't run while your on the freeway.

As for wire, just make sure it is as least as big as the factory wire was. I'm running 8 gauge on the Mark VIII fan on the Van and on my friends f-150. We are both running breakers. I run a single 100 amp manual reset and he is running a dual 50 amp (in parallel with bus bar) self resetting. We tried lower amperage breakers with with the Southern Az heat and under hood temps we were popping the breakers even though the running load was < 40 amps. I may try switching to a fuse since its less susceptible to heat.

If I understand what your planning on doing, your going to have a bunch of room in front of the radiator and want to put a big single trans cooler there. For big coolers, I like the MaxCool coolers from TruCool. I am personally running the model 47391 on the Van as the only trans cooler. Its rated at 40,000 GVW rating, 45,000 BTU. The Van with Trailer and X behind it is 14,000 (I think thats right). The highest I've seen the pan temp get is 160F and that was going up hill near the AZ/CA border by Yuma in mid 90's temp.

I got them from here and they have all kinds of sizes...
http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=2&Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=tru-cool-hd

I don't know if the two 1000 cfm fans is going to be enough to keep things cool, especially off-road. In the hotter climates, even the black magic fan wasn't keeping 1st gens cool.

Hopefully that info helps..
~Mark

 

[SwaintaN]

yea manik got it, i think lol.
xeek, yeah the plastic fan connected to the motor.

let me try to explain better, im sorry i dont know technical terms.

eliminate the fan that is belt driven and go with elc fan

and then replace #1 with a new one same size and use for the tranny. #2 clean and use for xeeks input oil cooler. #3 eliminate totally.

next, so the 1050 ea fan is to low, needs to be 2500+ EACH fan or just combined?

hey let me know if the pics showed up

 

[Xeek]

get rid of the belt driven fan. put in an electric one. i do not suggest the chevy hhr. do a search for the electric fan debate. i want to say a thunderbird fan is good, or the mark viii for sure.

as far as controlling it, i have a spal usa controller. i like it, the tech support guy i talked to was very helpful also. and did work on it for free without a warrenty

#1, yes and yes. still leave it connected to the coolant radiator with the hard lines tho
#2 yes(spray brake cleaner through the cooler itself then compressed air to blow it all out before reusing it).
#3 yes. but save it, watch your tranny temps and if they still get to high under load, add in the stock cooler and put a small electric fan on it

 

[SwaintaN]

thats what i was thinking too. yeah i was gonna clean the hell out of it and let it dry a day or two. on the third one i was gonna keep it but put away because i got other parts ive taken off but still good. i was gonna put a temp gauge in for the tranny, so thats the next question... does the temp gauge go before or after the cooler

 

[Maniak]

I like reading the trans fluid from the Pan since thats the temp of the fluid that is about to go through the trans. Some people like reading the temp going out to the cooler which is the hottest it will be.

Really, what your looking to watch is what is the normal driving around temp and then what is it when your putting a good load on it. You don't want the load temp to get too high..

Just for comparison, We get about a 70F temp between ambient temp and the pan temp when moving down the freeway for a pan temp. That means if its 100F out, the trans fluid in the pan is 170F or so. I haven't taken the Van out on one of those 105F+ days yet as it doesn't have a/c.

Heck, I've seen the trans fluid temp be 130F and the truck wasn't run all day. That was just it heating up from the ambient temp and heat from the asphalt.

~Mark

 

[SwaintaN]

lol my wife is in my ear to the side... "the longer your on that site the more money i see gets dropped into that pos out in the driveway"

yeah i thought about doing temp on the pan, is there a kit for that?! or would it be easier to do aux tranny filter before cooler with a temp on it

 

[Maniak]

lol my wife is in my ear to the side... "the longer your on that site the more money i see gets dropped into that pos out in the driveway"

yeah i thought about doing temp on the fan, is there a kit for that?! or would it be easier to do aux tranny filter before cooler with a temp on it

I'm assuming your talking about trans temp controlling a fan that is on the trans cooler.. and an external filter...

Some of the external filter adapters do have a spot for a sending unit. One bonus for putting the sending unit in the pan is it also works as a drain plug.

Now, for controlling the Fan, one method I was going to use when I still had the a4ld was to use the ECM's grounding of the TCC solenoid to also close a relay to run the trans cooler fan. That way, as long as the converter wasn't locked up the fan would be running.

I am doing that with the 700r4 trans we have now. When the TCC isn't locked up the fan is running. That way it turns off when I'm on the freeway.

~Mark

 

[Xeek]

adding another tranny filter is a good idea. i want to add a 2nd oil and tranny filter myself.
im not really sure where the best location for the temp sensor for a gauge would be.

im gonna steal this thread for a minute
the pan makes sense, most people put them there also. but would the line going to the coolers be fine? before it gets cooled off.
what about coolant temp? and oil temp?

 

[SwaintaN]

steal away, ive done the same to you! sorry manik i meant PAN not FAN in my first sentence.... really tired... spelling errors more and more

 

[Maniak]

adding another tranny filter is a good idea. i want to add a 2nd oil and tranny filter myself.
im not really sure where the best location for the temp sensor for a gauge would be.

im gonna steal this thread for a minute
the pan makes sense, most people put them there also. but would the line going to the coolers be fine? before it gets cooled off.
what about coolant temp? and oil temp?

It comes down to what you want to measure. IMHO, knowing the fluid temp at its coldest point isn't going to help much unless your comparing it to how hot it was when it hit the coolers. All that is going to tell you is how much the coolers are working...

I'd rather want to know the fluid of the temp the trans is going to see, or at least know the temp of the fluid coming out of the trans. Keep in mind, when you see trans temp charts of what is good etc, they are measuring pan temp, not torque converter output temp. You can use torque converter output temp as a guide to how hot your trans is running but not for how hot the fluid is in the trans.

~Mark