Found in Oil Pan?

[Lazzman]

I decided to change my old oil pan out because it was very rusty and looked like it was about to rot through.

After I got the old pan off and inspected it I noticed two small pieces of debri in the bottom of the pan. One was a chewed up plastic piece about the size of a mini marshmellow and the other was something that looked like a piece of shrapnal.

I am looking for expert opinions on what these parts could be and what happened to get them in the bottom of my oil pan. I would speculate that it could be a broken valve guide. Could be why my truck has a viscious shudder at idle sometimes and bogs around 3k rpm under hard throttle.

I have included pictures from various angles, along with a ballpoint pen for size reference.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Turdle]

I'm going out on a limb and sayin git looks like a couple of pieces of timing chain tensioner. Catch it now--

 

[James909]

^^
Agreed. Here is another thread that has a lot of information about the timing chain tensioner.

 

[Lazzman]

Thanks for the info.

I did have the timing chain tensioner recall done back in 2002, could it have gone bad again?

What types of problems could this cause and how much is it to fix?

Thanks

 

[Jakee]

I agree, this looks like the timing chain parts.

May just be the left over old one (Before the replace). If the new one was going bad, I think you'd hear it. Before the recall, were you hearing the chain rattle?

 

[Lazzman]

No, I did not hear chain rattle. The reason I brought it in was because it would not idle correctly. At that point the dealer determined it was the recall that included the O ring gaskets and timing tensioner. I am not even sure if they did the timing chain tensioner at that time. I was not very up on my truck back then. I know that it did not take them long to do the recall, maybe two hours.

What is a fair price from the dealer to replace the timing tensioner or perform the upgrade. I do not have the equipment or facilities to do it myself. I have around 170k mi on the engine.

Would not surprise me if there were issues with the timing tensioner, as I get a wicked shudder in idle at times that feels as if the engine is going to seize up. I am also still experiencing a slight bog around 3k rpm which I cannot resolve no matter what I do, and trust me I have done almost everything.

I appreciate the info Jakee and it very well could be the timing tensioner parts from the first recall it they did infact do it. Maybe the rear one crapped out this time?

What other symptoms does a bad tensioner have besides the noise? Any drivability issues?

Thanks

 

[ZBlackBeast]

WOW 170k and NO noises.. Thats really good. The recall would take more than two hours considering its requires complete disassembly of the front of the motor.. As for prices i think ford wanted right around 1500 or so for mine.. i think that included like 1000 in labor.... i think its timed right about 9 hours of work...

if your tensioner is going bad you would hear a rattle... Plain and simple.. another is finding parts of it in your pan.. as you have.. another is your motor randomly seizing and later finding out your valve and piston had a tea party!!

 

[IZwack]

FYI, it could be the balance tensioner -- which is pretty much the same design as the timing chain tensioner.

 

[ZBlackBeast]

very true.. considering it is a 4wd car.. But you would think that would make a little noise too...

 

[IZwack]

SIgnature says 4wd

But yes, that is definitely one of the tensioners.. the broken plastic piece a mauled end of this piece:

 

[Hitchhikingmike]

Question #1,

is this tensioner rattle still a common problem even on 4.0 SOCH engines found in 3gen explorer motors?

Question #2

Could this project be accomplished in the home garage? I know the engine has to be taken out, but once the engine is out can he parts be easily acquired?

Thanks.

 

[IZwack]

is this tensioner rattle still a common problem even on 4.0 SOCH engines found in 3gen explorer motors?

The design of the tensioner in my opinion is sub-par. Its basically a piece of plastic that is pushing against a metal chain -- obviously failure will occur as the plastic is worn away by the more resilient metal chain (even with oil serving as a lubricant between the two surfaces). Having said this, the third gen still uses the design of plastic on metal and therefore will eventually suffer the same fate.

Could this project be accomplished in the home garage? I know the engine has to be taken out, but once the engine is out can he parts be easily acquired?

Yes it can be accomplished in the home garage -- if you can get the engine out, then you probably have more than enough knowledge and experience to swap out the tensioner cassettes. The only other tool you will need is the timing toolset specifically for the 4.0L SOHC engine. If you need more info, search for "timing cassette".


Because of this plastic to metal design, I suggest using synthetic oil on the SOHC because synthetics tend to "cling" onto surfaces better than non synthetics -- which hopefully will extend the service life of the tensioners.

 

[Lazzman]

I do have 4wd. One thing I was reading on the link to another post above was the width of the metal piece. It is not 1/2" it is definately smaller than that.

Did the test for the pinging noise extensively last night by driving in second gear at 2500 - 3000k rpm no noise at all.

I do have a noise that sounds like muffled marbles rolling around in the engine at idle, but that is th only weird sound. Despite a low idle and bog around the 3000rpm mark, the engine runs strong and put out 190hp on the dyno recently.

$1500 would sink me for the repair. The law of diminishing returns, 10yrs old, 175k mi- the repair maybe worth more than the truck?

If I do have it repaired is there anything special I should have the dealer do? I saw a whole bunch of things that were suggested along with the timing tensioner.

Thanks

 

[jp450]

I had said this in other posts about this problem... I had a 99 Ex Sport with a wicked timing chain rattle that started at about 65K. I traded the thing in last year with 226K. I never had the timing chains fixed.

The way I was looking at it was if it costs 1500 to fix the problem and a rebuilt engine costs me 2000 then I was going to wait until the engine blew up and just drop in a rebuilt engine. Well I never had to do eather and have since traded the Sport in for a 4 door because of a baby. Would you believe that they gave me 2500 for the trade...

 

[ZBlackBeast]

again, wow 190 dyno HP... WTF have you done to this.... I switched to synthetics right after i bought it and it started rattling about 10k after.. i never had a failure.. i changed it every 3k with mobil one... i drovei t pretty damn hard too.. i sold it to a girl over a year ago and i dont think its needed any repairs since i replaced the IAC...

 

[CDW6212R]

With that mileage you may be best to plan for a big job, or trade it off. The parts cost is not bad, but with that mileage you should seriously consider doing the rear cassette also. For the labor of the typical front job, or the whole thing(engine out), swapping to another SOHC long block may be feasible.

The thin spring steel is the part making tension, surrounded by plastic yes. The balance shaft tensioner could fail and not create too much noise. The main chains should make some kind of noise if those chains become loose.

 

[Hitchhikingmike]

I
I do have a noise that sounds like muffled marbles rolling around in the engine at idle, but that is th only weird sound. Despite a low idle and bog around the 3000rpm mark, the engine runs strong and put out 190hp on the dyno recently.

Thanks

good chance that this noise is just your serpentine belt tensioner, at idle, look at it and it is probably rattling/ vibrating back and forth a lot, thats where this noise comes from.

 

[Jakee]

If you like the truck, my suggestion is a new rebuilt motor. They have a few on ebay just a little higher than the price to do the timing chains. One rule of thumb I have - if the motor has over 150K on it, and I have to go into the motor, I'll do a complete rebuild. My luck is I fix the timing chains and a rod then blows out the side of the block.

 

[CDW6212R]

The labor to pull the engine is the biggest part of doing the rear chain cassette. For that trouble, the cost for a different engine should be considered.

 

[Lazzman]

Thank you for all of the great replies and input.

I have to agree with Jakee on this one, I could see putting the $1500 in the timing chains and then the transmission will blow or something else. Have already put in a used transfer case when the old one seized and am fighting rust in the rocker panels. Though the truck runs well at the moment no telling what else could go wrong.

I would rather spend an extra $500 on a rebuilt motor than $1500 on timing chain tensioner in a motor that has 170k mi on it, how ironic with after the timing chain repair I spin a bearing or something like that. Then I am out the $1500 and will need to rebuild the engine.

Makes more sense to drive it for a few months until I can afford something newer.

Thanks again for the help and support