Gentlmen, lets discuss shock combinations.

[kert0307]

Ok, so as some of you know I'm working on designing an ifs suspension system. I'm really trying to think a little out of the box with this so I'd like to get feedback about running an Air shock and a regular shock. I know this is kind of wierd, but I have heard that air shocks work great for off road, but are a little weird for on road. So i'm thinking that running another regular type shock with it might make it a little more predictable on road?

I have actually found examples where people put air shocks on torsion bar setups basically having half the weight on the torsion bars and the rest on the air shocks and it really improved the off road performance. I plan on ditching the torsion bars in my design, but I thought it was worth noting.

So what do you think about this? Or should I just follow the rest of the crowd and go with coilovers and be done with it. (I'd really like to try something different...)

 

[Burns]

I like the idea because it is different but i dont know how to help you out. Good luck...

 

[dkchrist]

That would be difficult to tune running the half and half setup. If you can find information on the RCD lift it runs bilstein coilovers but I don't know the spring rate. Personally I would talk to dixon bros. and see what they use for coils

 

[kert0307]

That would be difficult to tune running the half and half setup. If you can find information on the RCD lift it runs bilstein coilovers but I don't know the spring rate. Personally I would talk to dixon bros. and see what they use for coils

Running coils alone is fairly easy, lots of peole/companies have done it. Like I said, I'm trying to do somehting different here, not just what everyone else has done.

 

[IZwack]

Here's something thats a little bit out of the box:

Try looking at the IFS system and somehow someway, replacing that with a smaller center section and differential unit. This equates to being able to run longer A-arms -- which of course equates to more tire travel.

Look at the rear differential of most modern IRS vehicles -- I know the latter model Corvettes have a very narrow Dana 44 rear :

If you could stick that as close to the center of the IFS as possible, then the vehicle can potentially have almost as much travel as the tropy trucks. Of course, price sky rockets once you start talking of the Corvette IRS section so at that point, might as well make an SAS kit

 

[kert0307]

Ya, that would be ideal, but for now I'm not getting quite that complex....but if I ever get ahold of a 3rd gen for cheap....

Btw Izwack, what do you think about my shock idea, since you've been running air shocks on your SAS?

 

[IZwack]

Btw Izwack, what do you think about my shock idea, since you've been running air shocks on your SAS?

As far as the concept of running both a regular shock and an air shock -- I think thats not really needed because if you're going to install an air-shock, then you dont really need the regular shock because the air-shock can be valved and filled with the proper oil/nitrogen ratio to resemble the same curive as the regular shock. Thats like running dual shocks on each wheel on an Explorer -- the vehicle itself does not have enough weight to require dual shocks even in most off-road situations. But other than being able to change the shock's characteristics, what advantage would this have over the regular torsion bar + regular shock system?

As for the torsion bar and just an air-shock idea, I think this would work but again, what advantages would this have over the normal torsion bar + regular shock setup?


But having said all that about air-shocks, I would not run an air-shock for "general off-road" use vehicle that will see at least as much asphalt as off-road trails. But why would I say this?

An air-shock is a highly specialized shock design that requires tender-loving-care. Air shocks are really great for rocks, but not for "general off-road". Because the seals are absolutely critical on an air-shock in order for it to keep it working properly, you must minimize the amount of dirt that comes in contact with the shaft of the shock. This is one of the many reasons why I dislike mud -- or if I have to travel over mud, I go very slow in 4wd to minimize the spatter. These seals are also very sensitive even to the fluids that are already on the vehicle. During the first test run of my vehicle up in Paragon, I managed to get some brake fluid on the shock shaft and a few weeks later, the shock's bearing body (which houses the important seals) was no longer working properly because of the fluid. Air-shocks must also be refilled with nitrogen every few months (depending on the pressure you run and volume of nitrogen in the body) so I'm not sure many general off-roaders are up for that.

Think of an air-shock as a scalpel where as say a leaf spring is an army knife. If some one told you that you're going to need a knife but did not tell you what types of cuts you're going to make in the near future, then you'd probably pick the army knife since it can be used in plenty of general situations and is very durable. But if you knew for a fact that you were going to perform some high-precision cuts (like in a surgery), then you would probably pick the scalpel.


I know you're trying to think out of the box and I praise you for that (and I hope I'm not putting down your hopes here), but I think you need to focus not on what suspends the vehicle weight because there are many ways to do this depending on your preferences, but instead, focus on the limited-travel IFS system itself -- which is one of the main weakness of the 2nd gen Explorer in off-road situations. If you can somehow make the example that I gave above (about the centered differential), and you made a kit for that, you will EASILY outsell any other existing competitor as you're IFS system will have so much more travel than the rest.

 

[kert0307]

Thanks, thats kind of what I was looking for. I didn't know that air shocks required that much maintantance. The reason I was thinking about air shocks was because I thought there might be a way to connect them so when one side is pushed up, it will transfer the pressure to the other side causing the other wheel to have more weight. Which= more traction. As far as making a kit with a different differential in the front for know I'd like to stay away from it because I don't think that the average person would want that extensive of a kit, not to mention how much a kit like that would cost b/c of all the other parts you would need to aquire. I'm pretty sure I can increase the travel with the stock differential....I've considered making something like two kits with similar parts....one more for the prerunners and the other that is basically the same, but runs f-150 spindles, hybred shafts, and probably a drop bracket to make up for the extra hight of the spindle. and both would have the same basic arm setup...