GPS Connection Delays

[tucker_bmd]

Why isn't this a recall?

Had the above TSB applied today and seems to be working much better. Kept losing the signal on the way to the dealer on a cloudy and rainy day, didn't lose it once on the way home.

Title is a rhetorical question, but makes you wonder. The GPS/Nav consists of hardware and software (different from MFT in this case). All Explorers have the same GPS/Nav hardware/software I think. Why do some Explorers (and other Ford Models) have problems and others don't (or are they just one pot hole away from a problem)? This TSB involves installing new software onto the GPS/Nav module. Seems this new software would include bug fixes or some other improvement, how could it be specific to ailing vehicles? This software must be better for all of us. In fact I bet the software from this TSB is what Ford is putting on all new models from the Factory. Rebecca, can you comment on this? Is the software from this TSB the new standard install for vehicles coming off the line? Or is this a question Ford won't let you answer? Got to remember that Rebecca has guidelines on how she can participate in the forum.

 

[FordIVTteam]

Had the above TSB applied today and seems to be working much better. Kept losing the signal on the way to the dealer on a cloudy and rainy day, didn't lose it once on the way home.

Glad all is working now!

Title is a rhetorical question, but makes you wonder. The GPS/Nav consists of hardware and software (different from MFT in this case). All Explorers have the same GPS/Nav hardware/software I think. Why do some Explorers (and other Ford Models) have problems and others don't (or are they just one pot hole away from a problem)? This TSB involves installing new software onto the GPS/Nav module. Seems this new software would include bug fixes or some other improvement, how could it be specific to ailing vehicles? This software must be better for all of us. In fact I bet the software from this TSB is what Ford is putting on all new models from the Factory. Rebecca, can you comment on this? Is the software from this TSB the new standard install for vehicles coming off the line? Or is this a question Ford won't let you answer? Got to remember that Rebecca has guidelines on how she can participate in the forum.

:/ I cannot speculate on that, tucker_bmd.

Rebecca

 

[spr]

"This software must be better for all of us."

not really..not 'must'. You could be right about it being a new full build, but maybe not.

often - software is updated..sort of a hot fix to correct a bad problem that has not been fully regression tested and not ready for wide deployment. In that case - the fix is (wisely) only loaded into environments where it is absolutely needed (eg: nonfunctional system anyway) until a general release can be made available and that has all the requisite QC performed on it. Its the best choice without risking, possibly... making other customers worse by introducing new unexpected problems.

purely speculating... but that is how software development works, typically.

 

[deerfarm]

On July 9, TSB 12-11-2 was performed on my 2011 EX. I have recorded the GPS connection time each morning since. This consisted of 12 days of data taken at 8:45 a.m.

For 11 of the days, the connection time took from 1.75 to 6.5 minutes, with an average of 4.6 minutes. Seven of the eleven times were between 3.5 and 5.5 minutes.

One day took 9 minutes. All days were either clear or overcast with not apparent correlation. No days were rainy or cloudy.

On every day except the last, all connections on subsequent starts during the day were within a few seconds. On the last day the morning connection happened after 5.25 minutes. At 9.0 minutes I stopped and turned off the EX for about ten minutes. When I got back on the road, it took 20 minutes for the GPS to connect.

The conclusion is that I don’t know if the TSB had an effect or not.

It seems to me that when the EX was new, the GPS connected in less than two minutes every day.

While these connection times don’t really disrupt my life (except for the 20 minute one), they are certainly not like my two Toyotas that connect instantly, even in the garage, and never lose the signal. Also, my golf GPS connects in less than a minute.

I don't understand how Ford finds this acceptable.

I hope some of you find this information interesting.

 

[tucker_bmd]

Got to be something wrong with the system

On July 9, TSB 12-11-2 was performed on my 2011 EX. I have recorded the GPS connection time each morning since. This consisted of 12 days of data taken at 8:45 a.m.

For 11 of the days, the connection time took from 1.75 to 6.5 minutes, with an average of 4.6 minutes. Seven of the eleven times were between 3.5 and 5.5 minutes ....

I hope some of you find this information interesting.

Really nice job collecting this data, I find it very interesting. Your data makes me think there is something else wrong with the system. From my experience with electronic test equipment and running experiments something that we always have issues with are loose cables. There is an GPS antenna somewhere on the Explorer and it has a cable running from it to the GPS receiver. This cable is connected to the antenna and GPS receiver either by direct solder joint or a torquable connector. If at all possible I would check to see if either or both ends of this connection are loose. The dealer must be able to do this some how. The next thing would to see if the cable's center pin conductor somehow has broken loose and is giving an intermediate connection. If the cable has a connector you can loosen it and inspect the center conductor (if it is a normal cable it will have a male pin center conductor, touch it with your finger and see if it's broken or loose.

Good luck

 

[peterk9]

Really nice job collecting this data, I find it very interesting. Your data makes me think there is something else wrong with the system. From my experience with electronic test equipment and running experiments something that we always have issues with are loose cables. There is an GPS antenna somewhere on the Explorer and it has a cable running from it to the GPS receiver. This cable is connected to the antenna and GPS receiver either by direct solder joint or a torquable connector. If at all possible I would check to see if either or both ends of this connection are loose. The dealer must be able to do this some how. The next thing would to see if the cable's center pin conductor somehow has broken loose and is giving an intermediate connection. If the cable has a connector you can loosen it and inspect the center conductor (if it is a normal cable it will have a male pin center conductor, touch it with your finger and see if it's broken or loose.

Good luck

The GPS antenna is in the base of the antenna mounted on the roof of the vehicle. In order to check that connection I'm assuming you would have to remove or loosen the headliner.

Peter

 

[tucker_bmd]

The GPS antenna is in the base of the antenna mounted on the roof of the vehicle. ...
Peter

That's my guess too. Did you read that somewhere or did your dealer confirm that? But the more I think about the OP's issues it's most likely not a loose cable, but still worth checking if the dealer can do it. I suggested a loose connection because the system used to sync up rather quickly from start of ownership and now it takes much longer. Which could make someone think something jiggled loose over time and miles and potholes. But looking back at the recent post, it's only the initial turn on acquisition of the day, the rest of that day the system synch's up quickly, which doesn't fit the loose connection suggestion. So what's the difference from start of ownership to now, maybe different version of MFT has something to do with it. To the OP, does your longer acquisition times correlate with a recent MFT upgrade? Sorry if you mentioned this earlier in the thread, didn't go back to look with making this post.

 

[Tracker09]

Question for Ford on this. I have a 2011 Explorer that is past it's warranty but it still falls under the extension on the APIM warranty. If I bring it in to get the aforementioned fix would that be covered under the latter warranty since the problem is with the infotainment system?

 

[FordIVTteam]

Question for Ford on this. I have a 2011 Explorer that is past it's warranty but it still falls under the extension on the APIM warranty. If I bring it in to get the aforementioned fix would that be covered under the latter warranty since the problem is with the infotainment system?

Hey, Tracker09,

This is not for MFT, it's for the GPS module. Your dealership will need to check in their system (with your VIN) to see if the fix applies to your Explorer and go from there; they'd also be the best people to speak to about cost and warranty.

Rebecca

 

[peterk9]

That's my guess too. Did you read that somewhere or did your dealer confirm that? But the more I think about the OP's issues it's most likely not a loose cable, but still worth checking if the dealer can do it. I suggested a loose connection because the system used to sync up rather quickly from start of ownership and now it takes much longer. Which could make someone think something jiggled loose over time and miles and potholes. But looking back at the recent post, it's only the initial turn on acquisition of the day, the rest of that day the system synch's up quickly, which doesn't fit the loose connection suggestion. So what's the difference from start of ownership to now, maybe different version of MFT has something to do with it. To the OP, does your longer acquisition times correlate with a recent MFT upgrade? Sorry if you mentioned this earlier in the thread, didn't go back to look with making this post.

Here is a notation that I took from a response by Visual Garage on their Shark Fin antenna. "This new shark fin antenna was developed specifically for vehicles that have an AM/FM rear-roof whip antenna and a Sirius/XM/OnStar/GPS chip-set antenna integrated into the larger antenna base."

Peter

 

[Zippyworld]

Just an update. One week after the update I haven't seen hide nor hair of the red X, I guess it worked for me.

 

[harlenm]

I asked today at my dealer about update for gps module. They said OK.

Picked up car at end of day and it said, "check status of sync, new update available in less than 2 weeks"

Come on, I said gps module, not sync update.

I really hate car dealers.

 

[Tracker09]

Hey, Tracker09,

This is not for MFT, it's for the GPS module. Your dealership will need to check in their system (with your VIN) to see if the fix applies to your Explorer and go from there; they'd also be the best people to speak to about cost and warranty.

Rebecca

So in other words, "No". Just curious, what actually is covered by that extended APIM warranty, just the motherboard?

 

[nitzer51]

I'm having the same issue. Mine is a 2013 tho so it's not covered under the tsb.... Yet. Lol

 

[peterk9]

So in other words, "No". Just curious, what actually is covered by that extended APIM warranty, just the motherboard?

I believe it the entire APIM module that is covered and replaced.

Peter

 

[deerfarm]

Hey Tucker_bmd,

Thanks for the feedback. Until my 20 minute episode, I was beginning to think the there is a software boot-up each morning that takes a few minutes.

I would like to know if there are people who actually get almost instant connections first thing of a morning. I'm assuming that my experience is normal for a Ford GPS.

I also would like to know Ford's expectation for how quickly the GPS should connect.

Thanks again.

 

[harlenm]

Hey Tucker_bmd,

Thanks for the feedback. Until my 20 minute episode, I was beginning to think the there is a software boot-up each morning that takes a few minutes.

I would like to know if there are people who actually get almost instant connections first thing of a morning. I'm assuming that my experience is normal for a Ford GPS.

I also would like to know Ford's expectation for how quickly the GPS should connect.

Thanks again.

I get an instant gps lock 90% of the time

 

[JohnBoyToo]

By the time I pull out of the garage and can 'see' the sky both cars AND our garmin 5000 have a lock..

is it possible you are in an area / building that hides the sats ?

 

[deerfarm]

Thanks for the feedback. I notice that both of you have 2013s. I wander if Ford has made some improvements over the 2011 models.

 

[Zippyworld]

The red X is back again, happened 3 times yesterday on a sunny and nearly cloudless day. I guess I'll keep my Garmin in the center console for when I need a working nav system.