Grinding Brakes -> my first brake job

[mrphiltx]

So, I'm driving home from work, 15 min side street and highway driving. I exit the freeway, and brake on the exit ramp. Suddenly it feels like my pedal went mushy. I release the brake and reapply (fortunately going uphill and with no one in front of me), and it feels normal, but it is grumbling a bit. Drive on home (a mile or two) and it grinds and grumbles more each time I brake. Started to drive it to church after dinner, but it felt funny and was making a lot of noise, so turned around and drove the other car. It felt a little like I was dragging something metal over concrete, and was making the whole car shake.
Looking at it, I could see a bright shiny circle on the disk on the front left. Couldn't feel much running my finger over it. When I finally got the wheel off last night, the outside rotor looked fine. The inside rotor, well, not so much. I think I can see a groove in it, so I'm in for a rotor change - at least a removal and turn.

Questions:
1) shouldn't the wheel turn freely when the brake is not engaged? Mine doesn't, indicating a stuck caliper? I can see no gap between pad and rotor on the inside or outside. Is this really bad or not so unusual?

2) if I replace one rotor, should I do the other one also, or only if needed? I know to do both pads.

3) I found this thread http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122696 by Glacier, but I have a 4x2, so my hubs are different - does this make it easier or harder? I've not found any threads dealing with the 1st gen 4x2 front wheels. Any one have a suggested thread?

4) replace the caliper pins every time? Is there anything else I should replace or otherwise not reuse?

5) Any of this suggest hiring a pro to do it?

 

[91exploreron37]

Its probably not turning becasue of the metal on metal contact, look at both driver and passenger sides and see if they have the same amount of pad left. also your not supposed to see a gap in between pad and rotor you can probably stick a feeler gauge in there but thats about it.

If the rotors are thick enough to be turned then do both if not then replace both to avoid any pulling.

Also a haynes manual is money well spent

 

[mrphiltx]

Thanks.
I figured the lack of gap was about normal. I have a Chiltons manual. Are the Haynes better? I plan to pick one up on our van (toyota sienna) at some point.

 

[bisjoe]

Either manual is fine. On your first brake job I'd suggest having a more experienced friend check your work.

Once you have metal on metal no one is going to turn the rotors, if they do they will charge you for it then tell you they are illegal to use (too thin). Just buy new ones.

If you have a lot of miles on it you should also rebuild or replace the calipers, they will start to stick from corrosion due to moisture in the brake fluid, especially if you have not replaced it regularly.

 

[91exploreron37]

Its more time and cost effective these days to replace rather than rebuild especially if this is your first brake job. I'd rather spend the few bucks for a caliper, it's only like 17bucks from autozone, than try and rebuild it just to have it leak when you put it all back together.

 

[JMan689]

Do both rotors, pads, might as well do calipers, flush and bleed the system. Hell check your drums while you're at it.

 

[91exploreron37]

X2 and while your in there check and repack the bearings.

 

[mrphiltx]

Status update:
Had to replace one of the rotors, so I did both. Two of the four bearings needed replacing as well (one inner and one outer - but I think they were from different wheels).
So, I've got new and repacked bearings, new seals, new rotors, new pads, and hopefully soon will have new brake lines.
I took bisjoe's advice of having a friend check my work, and he noticed the brake lines were fraying a bit. He recommended replacing them before they failed to ensure a pleasant stopping experience.
However, I've not been able to undo the fitting to the rest of the system. That fitting is hard to get to, and hard to get a wrench on, so I've been dousing them with WD40 and gonna have someone else get it off - hopefully without destroying anything else.

Thanks all for your help.

Over the weekend, the minivan's brakes started squealing, so hopefully those will go better.

 

[djsk8r33]

when turning a front wheel freely should there be a tiny scrapping sound as if the pads were still on the rotor, how would you fix that? i think thats what killing my milage

 

[mrphiltx]

Apparently vise-grips and a liberal application of strength broke the nut loose. I'm back rollin' again (and stopping safely!).

 

[91exploreron37]

when turning a front wheel freely should there be a tiny scrapping sound as if the pads were still on the rotor, how would you fix that? i think thats what killing my milage

Only if the wheel is super hard to turn then its a problem otherwise its normal.


MRPHILTX glad to hear you got back together.

 

[mrphiltx]

Yeah, my wife is too. No more loading everyone in the car twice a day to drive Daddy to work. <Mel Gibson in Braveheart> Freedom! </Mel Gibson>

Next up: minivan's brakes. Then to check my rear brakes.

 

[djsk8r33]

Only if the wheel is super hard to turn then its a problem otherwise its normal.

DMV thinks otherwise. i just failed inspection for the brakes. they arent super hard at all to turn.

 

[mrphiltx]

Was it the scraping noise or something else? (eg, not enough pad left, etc)

 

[91exploreron37]

Yea was it a loud metallic sound or squeling noise? I thought you were refering to a sticking caliper. Fail brakes that sucks? Here they only check emmissions, windsheild, and lights.

 

[djsk8r33]

Was it the scraping noise or something else? (eg, not enough pad left, etc)

the pads are touching the roter (BRAKING) while not on the brake pedal. only the left side.

 

[91exploreron37]

the pads are touching the roter (BRAKING) while not on the brake pedal. only the left side.

So its not making any noise?

 

[shaggymane]

the pads are touching the roter (BRAKING) while not on the brake pedal. only the left side.

A brake that's really hung up and stuck (both calipers) get damn hot and will often smell like, well..... burning brakes (similar to a burning clutch) because that's what's happening.

If just one caliper is stuck do the *feel test*. After driving, One rotor will be hotter than the other rotor and one side of the rotor with the stuck caliper could be hotter than the other side of that rotor. Don't burn yourself.
Another indication is if it feels like something is dragging the car to a stop at low speed when in neutral. Not sure that last one makes sense. 10 mph, in neutral, does the car coast like it should or does it feel like it's being pulled to a stop?

If the tire turns easily and you hear a rasping sound, you likely have a worn pad.
All the lining is gone so it's metal on metal. That rasping and grinding is usually the first sign of trouble since so few people check the brakes. The grinding and rasping gets louder and more pronouced when you apply pedal.

You also didn't say front or rear. Pull a wheel off and have a look. If you find a rotor face chewed up, that is not smooth, you've worn em down.

Hope that helps.

 

[djsk8r33]

front, left. it doesnt feel hung out while driving, but once inawhile i can hear grinding. the pads are somewhat new nd have alot o meat left. rotors are clean and scrape-free

 

[91exploreron37]

Did they give you an explanation of why you failed the brake inspection? Parking brake not holding, splitting rubber hoses, leaking fluid? etc...