Hard starts, extended cranking time, fuel smell

[Stackindimes]

Hi all,

I'm new here and have been having major issues with my 2013 explorer limited, 3.5 awd.

Bought it 2014 with 52k ran great. At 60k I had the great idea to put in E85(yes it is flex fuel) I was almost empty when I did. First tank, CEL came on was told it was normal from dealership, second tank stayed on and developed hard cranking. I stopped using and went back to regular gas.

I'm now at 120k, work I have done since 72k has been 2 new cats, 4 O2 sensors, fuel system cleaner, all new plugs twice, all new coil packs, new injectors, new intake gaskets, new evap purge canister.

Still hard extended cranking times it will literally time out and have to push the button a second time, raw fuel smell and CEL still on.

Took to an indy last week, replaced all of bank 2 injectors due to 1 of them dumping fuel in. Starting improved but still not right. Took it back and the are testing the fuel system again. Now it shows all injectors are leaking, including the new ones from last week. He has tried 3 different brands and all are leaking by.

The odds are pretty small to have so many bad injectors so I'm wondering if anyone has heard or came across this before.

Thanks for the time

 

[peterk9]

Welcome to the Forum.
I don't recall another post similar to yours. So all this was due to the use of E85?

Peter

 

[Stackindimes]

I can't 100% say it was. In my experience MN ford dealers say E85 is great and the best thing to happen. I bought it in ND, dealers out there say only thing it does is wreck fuel systems. I know I will never use it again

 

[KayGee]

Just so I understand, you used e85 at 60K miles and developed hard starting that went away after switching back to non-e85 gas.

You are now at 120K and the hard starting just start happening? Or was it there all along from 60K-120K?

What was the reason for all the replacement parts that started at 72K? Was it to address the hard starting or for other reasons not related to the hard starting?

Are the injectors OEM Ford or aftrmarket? Are the shops you are taking it to actually diagnosing the problem and advising what is necessary to fix things, or are they just sort of guessing?

 

[Odrapnew]

Just so I understand, you used e85 at 60K miles and developed hard starting that went away after switching back to non-e85 gas.

You are now at 120K and the hard starting just start happening? Or was it there all along from 60K-120K?

What was the reason for all the replacement parts that started at 72K? Was it to address the hard starting or for other reasons not related to the hard starting?

Are the injectors OEM Ford or aftrmarket? Are the shops you are taking it to actually diagnosing the problem and advising what is necessary to fix things, or are they just sort of guessing?

Good post. I have pretty much all the same questions.

 

[Stackindimes]

Just so I understand, you used e85 at 60K miles and developed hard starting that went away after switching back to non-e85 gas.

You are now at 120K - has the hard starting been there since 60K miles when you first tried e85 or did it just start happening again

What was the reason for all the replacement parts that started at 72K? Was it to address the hard starting or for other reasons not related to the hard starting?

Are the injectors OEM Ford or aftrmarket? Are the shops you are taking it to actually diagnosing the problem and advising what is necessary to fix things, or are they just sort of guessing?

The hard starting started during the 2 tanks of E85 and has not gone away since. The massive part replacement was do to the cats being burnt, mis fires on multiple cylinders and the injectors were stuck open. All done at dealer.

Fast forward to present, cranking got really bad again, CEL on again due to Cat. INDY did a fuel pressure check and it's bleeding pressure off by almost 20 psi in 10 mins, raw fuel sitting on top also. Replaced entire bank injectors, still have hard starts but better. Drive for 4 days brought back to re check. Loosing pressure still and after market injectors are now leaking. He has tried 3 different brands and the are all leaking.

 

[KayGee]

If fuel is leaking on top of engine, I would think there is a problem with o-rings or fuel rail/line - something broken/damaged during R&R or not put together correctly.

While it is unusual to get multiple bad injectors, I've seen stranger things with aftermarket parts. A lot of times aftermarket parts may carry a different "brand" name, but they can be the same parts in the boxes. There's also the possibility that your indy is not very good and using excuses to cover up for his/her lack of competence.

 

[Stackindimes]

He has check fuel pressure from tank to the fuel rail I believe and that holds pressure. I was thinking I had a cracked fuel pump. That shows good and only loses a few psi but that is normal.

He is currently waiting on injectors from Napa to try those.

I was wondering if there could be a short somewhere that would keep the circuit grounded, causing the injector to stay open. Having so many leaking/losing pressure seems unlikely unless they were all shorting out or the main was damaged...

 

[KayGee]

Maybe I misunderstood your previous comment - "raw fuel sitting on top also." Did you mean raw fuel on the top of the engine (outside of the closed fuel system)? That tends to be indicative of injectors not being installed properly (i.e. damaged o-rings/seals).

 

[Stackindimes]

From my understanding was after the fuel pressure test was done showing a dropping psi he went and removed the intake to get to the injectors. When he pulled out the injectors there was fuel sitting in the combustion chamber

 

[KayGee]

If there are no external leaks, you may have an electrical issue - chafed wire or short to ground - that is causing one of more injectors to stay open. That should be easy to check and see if any injectors are energized when they shouldn't be and trace back to source. If no wiring issues, maybe PCM went bad.

 

[Odrapnew]

Just a thought.
Try pressurizung the system and immediately removing the negative cable from the battery. Not sure how much remaining power is in the system, but could identify a power "leak."

 

[Stackindimes]

Problem has been fixed as of Saturday. The injectors that were replaced last week all had sipage/losing pressure after turning off vehicle. They did another full test of the system and a visual check on all injectors, all were leaking. The first 3 injectors were from Napa. Then they tried 6 more from Napa, all leaked, 6 from O'Reilly, all leaked. Finally got 6 from AutoZone that all held.

Luckily all the injectors were warranty and they even replaced the original 3 at no cost due to the bad.

Not too bad for they had it for almost a week. So far it has started better than it has even has.

Thanks guys for the ideas and input, hopefully this can help someone else down the road.

 

[KayGee]

That's one heck of a string of bad luck with injectors. You may want to play the lotto as you are probably due for a run of good luck. ;-)