HELP!!! 1994 A4LD Trans Puking Fluid!!!

[mikeinri]

Please help!

I have a 94 XLT 4x4, 4.0, A4LD with 275,000 miles. Today, I drove about an hour of highway driving, with the A/C running, in 80 degree temperature. I stopped in a parking lot to feed my baby while waiting for my wife to meet me for dinner. I was parked, with the engine running and A/C running for about 20 minutes, when I heard the engine idle speed change. I noticed that the temp gauge rose to about the center. After a few minutes, it went back down to N (where it usually runs after warming up). I noticed that it started to get warmer in the truck, so I got out of the truck (I was in the back seat) so I could go turn it off.

That's when I noticed that the truck puked about a gallon of tranny fluid out onto the parking lot. I looked under the truck, it was pouring out like a hose had broken. When I turned off the engine, the leak stopped. The leak is coming from the dead center of the truck, in line with the back edge of the front tires. There was no smoke, so I don't think it was hitting the exhaust, cat, etc. There were no shifting issues leading up to this point.

Other than a major seal, what could cause this?

I'm afraid to get under it while it's running, for fear of catching hot ATF in the eye, etc. I don't have access to a lift. If the tranny is done, I have to break down and replace the truck. Besides 275,000 miles, it has body rust and I noticed some rust on the frame over the winter when I replaced the transmission vacuum modulator.

Any ideas????

Mike

 

[e39dream]

hey Mike. Hate to see you give up on her if it's something easy to fix.

Is your truck equipped with a transmission cooler? If so have a look at the lines where they go in/out of the trans. Also check to see that the transmission filler tube is not rusted away and finally gave out. Other possibilities would be to check the trans pan gasket- the drain plug, and finally the rear main seal.

If it's a leaking trans cooler line or cooler itself summit has aftermarket trans coolers for about 50 dollars for an econo version, still plenty good for a small truck trans.

good luck to you! I think it's a line or something, a rear seal would give out while driving, you'd think.

 

[Burns]

I dont think it is a line. If i had to call it from now i would say front pump seal. But i need to know if the fluid is coming from inbetween the tranny and engine? If so its the pump seal.

If coming from the top of the tranny it most likely got hot and puked out of the vent line. Had this happen on one of our four explorers.

The tranny lines are metal till the cooler. I would just reach up there and feel the lines and see if you can feel a break or a loose line. Could be but not likely.

 

[Glacier991]

The A4LD has a case vent located on top of the case near the rear. A vent overflow line runs up the spine on top of the tranny and then down behind the bellhousing in the exact location you describe. Short answer? You overheated your tranny and the fluid vented over... a common thing for overheated fluid to do.

NOW the real Q is WHY did it overheat in park?
(I am assuming it was in park)

The immediate possible answer is that your forward clutch is not completely disengaging and thus creating heat. This is caused by the hole in the manual valve wearing into an oval allowing the shifter in park to still allow fluid flow to the forward clutch, causing partial forward clutch engagement (and friction that causes equals heat.)

My advice? Drop the pan and drop the VB... check the manual valve hole wherte the Z link engages it. IF it is ovalled (I am betting it is) put in a Sonnax manual valve indexer, about $25. IF that was the problem, that should solve it. Reinstall the VB properly with new gaskets using a torque wrench.

The fluid should be changed and add a FRAM microfelt filter.

At 275K, your A4LD has given you exellent service. I am at 227K myself. My guess is this has a good chance of being your problem, but you won't know until you drop the VB and inspect the manual valve.

 

[mikeinri]

Wow, thanks guys.

In my dreams, I have been hoping it's something as simple as a cooling line. It's definitely not coming from the pan, and it doesn't have a drain plug. It's not the cooler (in front of the radiator), nor the rubber lines. It's definitely coming from the rear of the engine, you can see it pouring down without even bending over too far.

I also thought of the filler tube, had that happen once with an oil fill tube on another vehicle. After getting it towed home, it got dropped in front of my house. I did add some fluid to drive into the driveway, and it didn't come out, so I don't think it's the filler tube.

I also considered the vent, but couldn't figure out why it would be overheating like that. It did overheat once while towing, but that was quite a while ago (years). I could try to drop the VB, is that something a rookie can easily accomplish (using Glacier's photo diaries)?

If it's the pump seal, how much can I expect that to cost (I wouldn't do that myself)?

The one thing that I haven't tried is to let it cool, fill it with fluid, drive it normally and see what happens. Not expecting to get THAT lucky!

Mike

 

[wood1]

Sounds like you could refill the transmission fluid and go, but ignoring the fact that your forward clutch isn't completely disengaging will cause you trouble in the future.

It seems like a very quick and easy fix if it is the problem Glacier suggests. Considering you have a good amount of miles on that trans, his diagnosis makes perfect sense. Personally, if he is suggesting you check something that specific, I'd bet money that is your problem. Dropping a VB isn't hard, read up on Glacier's and Brooklyn's threads and you will learn all you need.

Good luck, let us know how you make out!

C.

 

[BrooklynBay]

Check your fan clutch, and thermostat to see if they are working properly, and your coolant level.

 

[mawrazen]

I have a similar problem when towing up mountains with my 94 Ex. I installed a 2nd tranny cooler but the fix that worked was a 12 VDC Aux fan infront of the stock cooler.

Your problem sounds more specific with it overheating in park.

Good Luck. I hope to get 275K out of my Ex!

Be good of your Ex and she'll be good to you.

 

[Glacier991]

On the subject of uphills with aging A4LD's.... I regularly drive about 90 miles from sea level up to 7000 feet in the Sierra. While it is interstate, there are 3 especially steep sections. I will press the throttle until I get kickdown, then while still in 3rd gear shift out of OD.. the only noticeable thing is that for some reason the shift out of OD to D unlocks the converter for a couple seconds, causing a flare of about 250 rpm, but it is easy on the geartrain to do it this way. Once I am on a less steep section, I merely shift back into OD and the shift is an easy one.

Clean fresh fluid, a band adjustment, and this technique have eliminated my overheating problems on this trip...

 

[mikeinri]

Thanks guys.

I've been tied up all weekend with another commitment, and our computer crapped the bed at the same time as the truck (damn Murphy)...

Anyway, I am getting by for now, using the RV for daily driving (yes, that's what I said).

I'm going to a dealership to look at a newer Explorer. Depending how this goes, I may keep this one and try the "simple" fixes. I'm sure I won't get much in the way of trade-in value, and it's always good to have a spare vehicle!

Mike

 

[mikeinri]

Are you sitting down...

After the truck sat for the weekend (and now the weather is much cooler, in the 60s or less), I put 4-5 quarts of ATF in the tranny, and it's been running FINE!!!

Obviously, I don't expect this to be a permanent fix, but at least I have some breathing room to look for a newer truck.

They offered me $200 for this truck at the dealership. I've spent more than that on a tune up earlier this year!!! Not that I expected otherwise, but it's making me seriously think about trying Glacier's fix and keeping it as a spare car.

Mike

 

[mikeinri]

NOW the real Q is WHY did it overheat in park?
(I am assuming it was in park)

The immediate possible answer is that your forward clutch is not completely disengaging and thus creating heat. This is caused by the hole in the manual valve wearing into an oval allowing the shifter in park to still allow fluid flow to the forward clutch, causing partial forward clutch engagement (and friction that causes equals heat.)

My advice? Drop the pan and drop the VB... check the manual valve hole wherte the Z link engages it. IF it is ovalled (I am betting it is) put in a Sonnax manual valve indexer, about $25. IF that was the problem, that should solve it. Reinstall the VB properly with new gaskets using a torque wrench.

The fluid should be changed and add a FRAM microfelt filter.

Hey Glacier,

It's been a while since I had this problem. I bought a 2004 Explorer because I was concerned about the reliability of this 1994 (now has 279,000 miles). I have not addressed this tranny issue, and it has been running fine since (although I don't park and idle any more). This has become my backup / working vehicle (I primarily use it to carry firewood and tow a flatbed utility trailer).

So, it's been sitting, and used only for several thousand miles a year. The brake lines have rusted through, and I have some other relatively inexpensive items to fix, so I'm thinking about tackling lots of issues at once (well, over the next few weekends anyway).

So, I come back to this issue with the tranny, and I think I'm going to try your suggestion. The only thing I've ever done to any tranny is change the ATF, filter and pan gasket on a few different vehicles, and the vac modulator on this one. Naturally, I'm a bit nervous about this and have some questions.

I read through your diaries and others, and the post above, please clarify the following:

1. Obviously, this will be a messy job. If I drop the pan and let it sit dripping overnight or for a few days before dropping the VB, will that get most of the ATF out?

2. I've seen the comments about the VB feeling like it's stuck in the tranny after the bolts are removed. What is sticking to what?

3. After the VB is dropped (and I slide it off the z-link), what next? Does the manual valve just slide out, or is it retained somehow? I didn't see any mention of that in any of the diaries.

4. It seems like I need to at least partially remove the manual valve to install the indexer, is that correct? Does the Sonnax part come with clear instructions?

5. Let's assume all I want to do is install the indexer, not clean / rebuild the VB. You said "Reinstall the VB properly with new gaskets using a torque wrench." What gaskets?

6. The only VB gasket I see in the diaries seems to be under the separator plate. Do I have to remove the separator plate and replace that gasket even If I'm just dropping the VB for the indexer?

7. If you said yes to #6, it would seem that the next logical move would be to rebuild the VB, right? That would get me into a place I would not be comfortable going.

Thanks!

Mike

 

[mikeinri]

Glacier must be very busy.

Anyone else here that can answer the questions in my last post?

Mike

 

[BrooklynBay]

1. You could get a few quarts out, but not everything out.
2. The valve body gaskets get stuck.
3. The manual slide valve is made to slide. It looks like a long cylinder.
4. It has to slide far enough out of the way to attach it. Don't put it on backwards.
5. Valve body gaskets.
6. The separator plate has the gasket on the top of it.
7. Don't remove the separator plate unless you plan on rebuilding the valve body.

 

[mikeinri]

Thanks Brooklyn!

I guess this will make more sense when I take it apart, but where are the valve body gaskets? I'm assuming they're between the valve body and the tranny innards? How many am I looking to replace?

Here is what I think you are saying, from the bottom of the tranny:

Pan
Pan gasket
VB
Separator plate gasket
Separator plate (screwed to VB)
VB gasket
Bottom of tranny innards

Is that right?

Mike

 

[Roller2105]

Hi Mikeinri - I was interested that your transmission appears OK after replacing the lost fluid. Had a similar thing with my '94 last fall: I did an 800mile non-stop trip fromt he east coast to Pensacola and back and halfway back I noticed the back window was 'spotted up' - turned out to be trans fluid kind and when I looked underneath the bottom of the truck was coated with oil and a large puddle was forming! No showing of oil on the dipstick.
To cut it short - I found a 24hr parts store and filled it up with about 4 qts and drove on home - it's been 8 months now and no further leaks and level stays where it should.
Having read a lot of the thread I put it down to running for about 12hrs at 70mph + on 85 degree weather....

This is the second time I've had a similar thing happen to me ('92 Expl) - the other was pulling one of those 30 mile upgrades between Alberquerque and Flagstaff. I was pulling hard at 65 or so in 'D' (it has kicked down) and there was suddenly a great cloud of smoke in my mirror and similar oil spillage as above. That time, I filled it up, took it easy and never had another problem...I guess they just vent if they get too hot!

 

[mikeinri]

Hey guys, do I have this right? Is there a gasket above and below the separator plate? In other words, if I take out the VB and don't remove the sep plate, is there a gasket that I need to replace when I put the VB back into the tranny?

Roller, that's right, they vent if they get too hot. The real trick is figuring out WHY they get too hot. If you have a tranny cooler in front of the radiator, check the rubber hoses. There's a good possibility that they're leaking. When that happens, they get ATF on the front of the radiator, which then attracts all sorts of road debris and forms a nice, solid layer of crud, causing your cooling efficiency to go way down, leading to overheating. The fix is simple, replace the rubber hoses and clamps, and clean off the radiator.

Mike

 

[BrooklynBay]

The separator plate is attached to the valve body. The gasket is in front of it.

 

[mikeinri]

I've searched the diaries, looked at the manual (one of your links), and this is just not obvious in the stuff I've seen so far.

I'm not a tranny expert, and I'm not understanding "in front" of the VB.

What I've seen is that the VB has a gasket on top, and then the separator plate attached to the top of that gasket. That subassembly (sandwich?) is then attached to the bottom of the tranny.

What other gaskets are there?

Is there a clear picture or diagram of this anywhere?

Mike

 

[BrooklynBay]