i think i killed my motor. kinda 911 thread

[mynameisaric]

so let me start at the begining. (or skip the first 2 paragraphs for the important stuff)

i decided to install an oil pressure gauge. that required replacing the pressure sending unit. the cyberdyne unit was too bulky to fit where the stock one was so i ran an elbow and also had to fit an adapter in ther to go from 1/8 npt to 1/4 npt. i used teflon on the ends of the threads(not the whole threads because i needed the unit to ground). everything was ok, no leaks, but... the pressure sender didnt work properly. it started up at about 35 psi and would go down as the engine warmed up to about 22-24 psi at 2500 rpm then would drop to around 7-8psi at idle. i didnt think my motor was actually acting up so i figured the unit wasnt working. due to me hating the cold i kept procrastinating the troubleshooting. this was about 2 or 3 weeks ago.

fast forward to last wednesday. this is where it starts going downhill. i've had an exhaust leak for a while, but i noticed that it seemed a little louder now, and i look beneath the car and notice a puddle of oil.(not just a few drops, but a small puddle(2 or 3 tablespoons worth probly )) this was my lunch break at work, so i went to a gas station and put in a quart of oil. i didnt check the dipstick for a level, and i should have known better. i think i was just freaking out because i didnt know how much oil i lost and my motor was getting noisier. the gas station only had 1 qt of 10w30 so i put all of it in. after work i had to go to school and thats a 20 mile drive, 3.5 hours later i go home(10 miles) and fix my leak. it was coming from the elbow in the pressure sender. the teflon disintigrated or something and where it was sealed before, it leaked. and then i start the truck and look and feel for leaks. no leaks but that noise didnt go away. i open up the oil fill cap and start pouring in oil. and the noise seems to get quieter.... so i keep pouring until the bottle is almost empty... so i just pour the rest in. once again, i have no idea what the hell i was thinking. the truck ran fine, it still had that exhaust leak rattle that was louder than usual(i thought it was exhaust, but now i realize it was coming from the motor) well i kept telling myself i need to drain my oil cuz i checked my oil over the weekend and i was wayyyyyy over the fill line. well today(tuesday) my truck decides to get LOOOUUUDDDD. so i decided that tonight i would drain my oil and put the proper amount in. well i'm on my way to school (different campus.. longer drive.. 20 mi.) and i'm at a stop light and i feel the car shake, but its not in beat with the subs, so i pause the music and find out i have a terrible idle and that noise is louder. i can no longer justify it as an exhaust leak. its too metalic and too loud. rpm's past idle and the truck runs fine, but that metallic kind of rattle is still there. i come home from school and change my oil. i now have proper amount of oil, but the damage has been done. the noise is still there and its not going to go away.

i did some searchin and it seems that rough idle and loud metalic-ish rattling noises are timing chain tensioners, valve thingies or lifters or rods or something sticking due to lack of oil pressure, and pretty much everything came to the conclusion my oil pump was failing, i needed to replace or reset or sumthin to my timing chains, or i needed an engine rebuild.

symptoms: rough idle that shakes the car and loud metalic-ish exhaust-ish kinda rattling that doesnt go away at any rpm. but the car runs fine past idle. no noticeable difference in acceleration or anything.

possible cause: possibly too little oil, and then way too much oil. or pressure leak in the oil system if thats possible. or maybe the motor was on its way out, but i reall thing thats doubtful since it was running absolutely fine before i installed the oil pressure sender.

almost forgot, 98 explorer xlt 4.0 sohc, 4x4 with 136k miles. hopefully thats all the information you guys need. sorry its so long but i know some people like the full story to try and diagnose stuff. and there are no trouble codes popping up, unless my light is out.

if the motor does need to be replaced, i will(order from most likely to least likely):
a: get a cheapo car to get around in for now, and swap in a salvage motor when i'm out of debt from all my front end work and the new cheapo car.
b: get a decent car to get around in and part the explorer, and start over one day when i can afford another vehicle make "trail-only"
c: get a jasper refurb motor and hope my truck can get me around till i can swap the motor(but i have no idea what i'm doing so i dont really know if its an option, the salvage motor is kinda the same deal, but with a second car i can take more time.)
d: buy another explorer and go into massive debt and switch over parts and part the rest of the old explorer
e: pay a shop to fix my motor(this might move up the list if the cost doesnt end up being that bad... but i have a feeling autoshops will want to charge me more than the vehicle is worth in labor alone for a job like this.
f: fix something simple and have everything be ok.

 

['97 V8]

What were you thinking !!!!!!!??????
sigh, oh well. i say get a low milage 98 sohc with the same build date and swap it in. We saw how 410 ran into issues with his 4.0 swap of a different year engine.

As for parting out your ex, you put too much work into it to do something like that. Take it to a shop and have them look at it and see what exactly is wrong and have them give youa qoute.

If you have no luck with finding an engine in your area, i'll check around where i live and if the price is good, i'll pick it up and take it to ya.

Now i dont like this idea too much but oh well, IF you decide to buy another explorer i can help you in that area. I sell salvaged and seized vehicles to the middle east and run across a bunch of explorers and what not so i could look for one for ya.

if you part it out...i got dibs on your bumper and gears....im sorry, couldnt resist.

what ww

 

[mynameisaric]

my dad talked to his friend, and he also says i need a motor rebuild.....yay . so i'm going to call the junkyards today and see if i can get a 98 or later sohc motor, and i'm going to learn really fast how to swap a motor. can't be that hard right? disconect headers, disconect intake and throttle bodyetc. make sure everything is clear. secure the motor (don't have a engine hoist, but my dad does happen to have a gantry and every size chain fall you can think of) pull it out, and set the new one in. i'll replace the plugs, wires, belts, and hoses. may as well drain the fluid in my transmission too. then start paying my parents back all the money i will owe them.

 

[410Fortune]

I would get the latest model SOHC from the junk yard I could find and drop it in your truck, plan to spend $1000-1200. End result is new life into your truck with a full tune up and new fluids.

the 97 SOHC was the first year.
the 98 was the second year

See where I am going?
If you can find a 01-03 Ranger or Exploder engine in the yard with 50-80K miles on it you can likely pick it up for $400-600 and swap them out.

OR you can diagnose the problem with your current engine, if it is in the valvetrain you can fix it.
If it is a the timing tensioners or chains you can fix those too, but plan to pull the engine for this.

 

[mynameisaric]

if i have to pull the motor either way, a rebuild will probably cost me close to what a salvage motor would, and i'm thinking that swapping motors would be easier than rebuilding. i will of course try to find the latest model i can. do the 3rd gen explorers have 4.0's that will work? and the sports and sport tracks are the same too right? i know my mom's motor is a little different than mine(but they're both 4.0 sohc). so i'm not sure if her motor and mine would make a clean swap or not. like her oil gets put in on the other side of the intake from mine i think.

but i wouldnt waste my money on a high mileage motor. i was really hoping to find a new explorer for cheap and just start all over. my dad's friend said it sounds like a thrown rod from revving the motor on start up(which i don't do) or not filling the oil filter with oil during the oil change. well i know i'm not going to install any aftermarket gauges on the new motor. the idiot gauges will work just fine. i need to start reading people's info on swaps.

410: how long do you think the swap will take? i have pretty decent mechanical abilities, but i've never done anything this intense. what is a best case scenario for a timeline?

 

[410Fortune]

The SOHC is used in the Mustang and gen 3 explorer's as well yes. The Ranger, Sport trac, or Gen II Explorer with the SOHC will be your best bet and you are more likely to find one in a yard or at auction.
All Ranger, Explorer Gen 2, Sport, and Sport Trac SOHCS are similar, the Gen III appears to have some big changes and the car verison I would not want to go there...
Otherwise you may end up having to swap oil pans, sensors, brackets, who knows...

You will want to use your computer and wiring/sensors/intake

Plan a week at LEAST depending on how much time you get to work on it, who is helping and what tools you have.
Dont be scared there is only one way to learn, although I highly suggest you get a helper who has pulled engines before, there are tricks you need to learn like how to unbolt/stab the torque converter, trans, etc....
Do you have somebody who can help who knows a bit about this stuff?


Again before you rip it all out and buy parts make sure you know whats wrong with your current block..

 

[Iggy flywheel]

I would use a labeling system when you take things apart cause you will forget what that thing goes to..... What is this bolt for? Oh that holds the tranny to the block... Nah that ain't it hold the muffler bearing.....

 

[mynameisaric]

muffler bearing.. ahahahahah.

this sucks. i actually don't know whats wrong with the current block. it makes alot of noise though, but its not throwing any codes, and the air/fuel meter(the only one i got working) shows me that is bounch between .35+ to .75. with the cruise control on going down the interstate it stays steady between .4 and .5. so besides the noise, it runs fine. and i don't know anyone thats pulled a motor. I figured i would go at this like every other project i've done, and read all about it here on the forums and then start when i get off work on friday. that gives me 2 and a half days which is usually plenty.... but i've never had to replace the motor. maybe i'll just look into buying another explorer. i am thinking this project is a little over my head. If i had another car, and another garage to keep my truck while i worked on it, this wouldnt be a problem. but my truck is my only mode of transportation. my garage really isnt big enough for a motor swap. i would have to have half of the truck hangin out to pull the motor, and then i would have to push the truck back in when i'm done to shut the garage(otherwise i would wake up the next with no tools, air compressor, bmx bike, lawnmower, etc.)

if i had the time and the space, this wouldnt be a problem. ugh. i'm going to go crawl in a corner and cry for now.

 

[Spas]

Lemmie ask you this... is the noise coming from the front of the engine, back, or both? We had a 98 Xlt come in here with the same symptoms as yours... girl blew all THREE tensioners/guides at once! It's not usual, but it does happen is my point. I know a skilled Ford Master tech can have your old engine out and the replacement in in about 3-4 hours, believe it or not. But they're still gonna charge you by the book, which allows something like 10 hours. Big $$ at a shop labor rate of $83.50/hour. Dunno how many junkyards you have out there, but around here you can nab a used SOHC for 3-400 or less or you can try Ebay. If you go that route, make sure you replace all three tensioners and guides (chains probably wouldn't be a bad idea, in case they're stretched but that really is a rarity) before putting the new engine in, just as a precaution. Trust me, it's MUCH easier to do with the engine out!! Also, I'd try to stick to a replacement engine that's within a year of yours as Ford kept changing options on the damn things every year (example, IAC's changed from 98 to 99 and so did the computer programs, '01 and up have different intakes) That flippin death rattle is the main reason for me doing a v8 swap, as everytime I replace one of Blackjack's guides one of the others goes bad. :fire: Best of luck to you!!

 

[mynameisaric]

alright... i didnt go cry in a corner(sounded like a good idea though), i called around and kept looking stuff up online. i am led to believe my problem is not a rod or valve, but the rear timing chain. I don't think it has slipped since the truck runs ok(except at idle.... so maybe it has slipped). i read a thread where a guy took his truck in with what sounded to be the same symptoms, and he was going to get the chains and cassettes and what not replaced, and the damage was extensive when the mechanic pulled the motor to replace the rear chain(of course.. the mechanic may be out for the money... who knows), but the guy needed to replace his motor. i called around and got quotes and my options have changed.

in order from most to least likely:

a.) have a mechanic replace my motor with a reman jasper motor.
pros: -jasper updated timing chains so the problem will not repeat itself
-3 year/70,000 mile warranty
-BRAND SPANKIN NEW MOTOR!!! and i dont have to touch anything
-I get to keep my truck!
cons: - the cost!
cost: - motor = $3379
- install kit = $344
- labor = $1300ish (13-14 hours)
- the company in the lead sends the radiators to be cleaned and inspected = $300
- total = $5300ish plus tax
monthly payment through "Mom n Pops bank" = $170-200 a month for 3 years(or as fast as i can repay almost $6000 depending on job/pay status)

b.) buy the timing chains, cassettes n what not
pros: - cheaper than a new motor
cons: - still need to pull the motor
- might not solve the problem
- need special tools to set timing and probably knowledge i don't have.
cost: - special tools = $200ish
- parts = $200ish
- total if i do it = $400 plus lots n lots of time to figure stuff out.
- total to have it done $1400-1500 (parts plus 13-14 hours to pull the motor)
monthly payment through "Mom n Pops bank" = same as above, but will be payed off much quicker.

c.) new to me, used truck
pros: - it would run
- less miles than my current truck
- parts swap over
cons: - I would probably have to relive every 2nd gen/sohc motor problem... including but not limited to; 00-m-12 recall, timing chain situation, or any other unforseen circumstances
- cost
cost: - 98+ with less than 75k miles = $6500-8000
- title, tax, etc. = ( i really don't know) estimating $500
- tune up = estimating about $200
- total = $7-8700
monthly payment through "Mom n Pops bank" = probably around $300ish for 3 years(or as fast as i can repay almost $9000 depending on job/pay status)

 

[410Fortune]

Right but any SOHC long block 98-03 should be able to accept his 98 intake, mount plates, etc to work with his 98 truck.

Engine swaps can be done in single bay garages, it is not uncommon to have to back the truck half way out in order to pull the engine and then again to stab.
I have used my BII with an old tire on the bumper to push a few trucks back into the garage.

I can pull a 4.0L in about 4-5 hours myself, but thats because I have done it a few times, also you will ALWAYS run into something un-expected. For your first time I would plan AT LEAST A WEEK. I spent 4 hours just on one sensor last week.....you spend alot of time looking for the right tool. You may find you can get it done in two days and everything goes smoothly, but DONT plan it that way

It does not hurt to get an estiamte from local shop and or engine rebuilders, the important thing is to research all your options.

 

[mynameisaric]

Lemmie ask you this... is the noise coming from the front of the engine, back, or both? We had a 98 Xlt come in here with the same symptoms as yours... girl blew all THREE tensioners/guides at once! It's not usual, but it does happen is my point. I know a skilled Ford Master tech can have your old engine out and the replacement in in about 3-4 hours, believe it or not. But they're still gonna charge you by the book, which allows something like 10 hours. Big $$ at a shop labor rate of $83.50/hour. Dunno how many junkyards you have out there, but around here you can nab a used SOHC for 3-400 or less or you can try Ebay. If you go that route, make sure you replace all three tensioners and guides (chains probably wouldn't be a bad idea, in case they're stretched but that really is a rarity) before putting the new engine in, just as a precaution. Trust me, it's MUCH easier to do with the engine out!! Also, I'd try to stick to a replacement engine that's within a year of yours as Ford kept changing options on the damn things every year (example, IAC's changed from 98 to 99 and so did the computer programs, '01 and up have different intakes) That flippin death rattle is the main reason for me doing a v8 swap, as everytime I replace one of Blackjack's guides one of the others goes bad. :fire: Best of luck to you!!

Junk yards are overpriced here. i only found 2 junk yards with my motor. $800-850 for a motor that has 47k on it. i still have to see what the stealerships want. the reman jasper motor (even though its going to be hella expensive) i think is the way i'm going to go. I'd love to just buy the jasper myself, plus the install kits and do this in my garage for 3800-4000... or pop in a used motor for 800 and upgrade the parts n such for a total around 1000-1200 probly, but i just think this project is way over my head. I just dont have the time or the space.(or the tools for the timing chains)

 

[thewishkah]

Hey , I will not be much of a help here but , Someone on the board has had ALOT of problems with Jasper before, took him a long time to sort it out. I know he has since sold his X but I still see him on here sometimes just wanted to give you a heads up.

 

[mynameisaric]

they sent him the wrong motor. cant think of his screenname off the top of my head but he had a red sport on 35's with a snorkel. i know who your talking about. I wouldnt have to deal with the jasper motor... my mechanic would. ugh... i thought i'd never have to take my truck to a mechanic except for alignments. oh well. chit happens right?

 

['97 V8]

i could do one of two things for ya. I pulled an engine out of a blazer, 6.2L diesel and another out of a Bimmer(the bimmer sucked, that was a looooot of wires). Its pretty straight forward, almost. pretty much the biggest challenge is, when i did the blazer and the bimmer was breaking the bolts loose. We labeled everything like flywheel suggested.

the second is help ya look for another explorer.

 

[mynameisaric]

my parents have had alot of good luck buying new vehicles from this ford dealer the town over, i gave them a call. mechanic said 4k out the door for a new block. 36 month 36k mile warranty. that option isn't sounding too bad. its nearly $2k less than jasper motor replacement, and the monthly warranty is the same, but the mileage warranty is less. i put about 14k miles a year. but i dont think its worth the extra $2 thousand bucks. the mechanic said they dont make the motor anymore... or something like that, just the block. he said some parts would have to transfer over from my old motor. pumps of some sort. should i be worried about that?

 

[410Fortune]

you sure you want to put $4k into your truck?

 

[mynameisaric]

i've got 1250 in wheels and tires, 800 in lockers, 600 in gears, 150 in another transfer case, just put 600 into new wheel bearing hubs, brakes, rotors, cv shfts, and shocks. i;ve replaced the lower ball joints and the rear u-joints. plus all kinds of other miscelaneous things like seat covers, 6.5" screen, subs(but these kind of things could transfer to whatever else i would drive.) so anyway i'm 3400+ into the drivetrain, if i replace the motor, i'm pretty close to a new car. only thing i have to worry about is transmission, which would cost 2000-2500 i believe, and then i would have a brand new drivetrain pretty much. my dad and i are going to remove the oil pressure sending uniit with the stock one, check the motor mounts and try and single out where the noise is coming from tonight.

 

[410Fortune]

I vote for go cheaply with the engine and save your $$$ for the auto trans.....the engines typically last alot longer then most everything else.
heck if I was closer I would do the wrok for $500, there has to be somebody close enough to you who can do this swap for $500 cash...


I cannot blame yuo for wanting new but $4K is ALOT for a engine swap, even with a new Ford block. Also I would expect that price to go up since its at a dealership....

 

['97 V8]

As i said, i can help with the swap...but in may. i wouldnt charge anything, just would like to have a place to stay during it.