Issues with my 02, Dealer Broke it???

[03 Explorer Iowa]

Hello All!

Let me start off my saying that I am absolutely fed up with my Explorer! I have had it for 1.5 years, and replaced two window motors, electrical wiring in driver's door, and switches in passenger door, totaling $1000+ dollars. The electrical wiring was done 2 weeks ago due to my passenger window not getting power and the switches not working. This was also supposed to fix the issue of my door chime & light & dome light coming on when my doors locked while driving.

Got it back and the door chime issue was not fixed, so I took it back last weekend to get the switches replaced in the passenger side door. I paid for the parts and they didn't charge me labor since they didn't fix it the first time. Had a family member pick up my car on Saturday due to me having to work, and when I picked it up from them, the car doesn't start right. Sometimes it will start fine, other times it will crank and finally turn over after about 20 seconds, and still other times it will crank for 20 or so seconds, start, but my RPMs will go from 1000 (where it normally is) down to almost 0, and then back up to 1000. I have never had any issues with this car starting before the dealer had it on Saturday, so I called them to see if they could have maybe left something loose, and the service manager thinks it may be the Throttle Body???

Could this be the case, and does it typically cost $$$ to get it fixed?? I am about ready to invest all of this money into a newer Explorer because I cannot afford to keep dumping money into this car. It's a 2002 Explorer XLT 4.6L V8 with 114,000 miles on it. Interior and Exterior of the car are in great shape, so it doesnt look like it was abused by the previous owner, but I'm not sure what to think anymore. Dealer Service Manager said that "some cars just have electrical problems" but I'm not buying it!

Thanks for the help!

 

[SyberTiger]

I'm not a big believer in the Ford stealerships. I've heard way too many stories of incompetence and systematic swaping out of parts to fix a problem AT YOUR EXPENSE. It would seem that sometimes there are no diagnostic skills whatsoever used by some of these monkeys.

I can't say that I know the exact solution to your problem but here are a couple of threads you should glance over. Sometimes the solution is simple and inexpensive (less than $100) and a do-it-yourself fix of less than 20 minutes. You seem to be having two unrelated problems...one electrical and one engine startup/idle.

Click the following links:

1. Possible Electrical Problem for 4.6L Engine

2. Possible IAC Problem (very common) or Dirty Throttle Body

3. Possible Vacuum Line Problem (very, very common)

Please take a look at those threads and come back on here and post your comments as to likelihood or not. BTW, I assume your Check Engine Light (CEL) didn't come on? If so please have AutoZone or AdvancedAuto read the computer codes out for free and post them here.

 

[Exproblems]

Hello All!

Let me start off my saying that I am absolutely fed up with my Explorer! I have had it for 1.5 years, and replaced two window motors, electrical wiring in driver's door, and switches in passenger door, totaling $1000+ dollars. The electrical wiring was done 2 weeks ago due to my passenger window not getting power and the switches not working. This was also supposed to fix the issue of my door chime & light & dome light coming on when my doors locked while driving.

Got it back and the door chime issue was not fixed, so I took it back last weekend to get the switches replaced in the passenger side door. I paid for the parts and they didn't charge me labor since they didn't fix it the first time. >>>>>>>>>>> I have never had any issues with this car starting before the dealer had it on Saturday, so I called them to see if they could have maybe left something loose, and the service manager thinks it may be the Throttle Body???

Could this be the case, and does it typically cost $$$ to get it fixed?? . Dealer Service Manager said that "some cars just have electrical problems" but I'm not buying it!

Thanks for the help!

Can't help you on the V-8 engine issues too much, I have the V-6. The Throttle Body can be cleaned with "Throttle Body" spray cleaner, doing so may help with that issue and it isn't that hard to do. Just ask how if you want to know how to do that. The links "Sybertiger" gave you should help you with the Throttle Body. He just cleaned his and posted up a helpful post with photo's on how and what he found while cleaning his Throttle Body.
You spent a lot of money at the Ford Dealership on the window motor work and the broken wires in the doors. Stay away from them, dealerships charge way too much for labor! Find a cheaper labor rate, privately owned shop you trust if you aren't that mechanically inclinded to do repairs yourself. The broken wires could have been repaired yourself for nothing more than the cost of a small spool of 12 gauge wire and a few wire connectors. The inner door panels just have to come off and remove the speaker from the door for wire access. I just repaired a broken white/yellow striped wire in my driver side door boot that caused my passenger side window not to work. Patched up the wire and now the window is working again. Only cost me a couple of bucks in supplies. The arm rest window and door switches can be replaced very easily as well. It also sounds like you have a "door ajar" issue going on and there are many repair posts in here on the subject. I don't have the links to them handy, but you can find them thru the search box at the top of the forum or in the "Sticky Thread" section.
What the Ford Dealer Service Manager should have told you is that 'many Ford Explorers" have electrical issues , not just some cars do. Good luck getting your Explorer sorted out.

 

[03 Explorer Iowa]

Thanks for the help guys! The electrical issues were resolved last weekend at the dealership, but I am interested in cleaning out the throttle body if either of you could give me "dumbed down" instructions. I am more mechanically inclined than many women, but most of the instructions are somewhat difficult for me to figure out since I don't know what many of the parts in the engine look like or what they are called.

The issue is limited to only the rough start, the idle is fine. Last night, however, I noticed a loud high pitched whistle/squeal coming from under the hood around the driver's side I believe. It sounds like a tea kettle going off and fades in and out, although it didn't seem to have any rhyme or reason in doing it. I tried revving up the engine and driving around and it seems to only do it at an idle randomly, and when driving under 30mph. Do you think these are related issues? I have read that some explorers do this whistling, but couldn't find an answer as to what causes it or how to fix it??

Thanks again for the help!

 

[Kevlar7R]

Did this whine happen while you had the ac or the defroster on? It sounds to me like the ac cycling. You might have a squeaky belt or need your ac system topped up.

FYI, the ac runs when you have the defroster on. It first cools the air to dehumidify it, then heats it to what ever temp you have set.

 

[SyberTiger]

Sounds to me that it is very likely to be the vacuum line issue from link #3 above. The whistle sound could be that rubber elbow with a hole developing. As air is sucked into that hole it can make a whistle or squeal noise. It will take you about 5 or 10 minutes to locate the rubber elbow and verify if it is a problem.

 

[Exproblems]

but I am interested in cleaning out the throttle body if either of you could give me "dumbed down" instructions.

The issue is limited to only the rough start, the idle is fine. Last night, however, I noticed a loud high pitched whistle/squeal coming from under the hood around the driver's side I believe. It sounds like a tea kettle going off and fades in and out, although it didn't seem to have any rhyme or reason in doing it.
Thanks again for the help!

Go to the link below to a post by "Sybertiger".

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=375903

Look at his post #14 with the photo of the Throttle Body and use it as a guide to find yours. He has a blue box drawn around the top of the Throttle Body in the pic. The larger, silver colored device below the blue box in the pic is the Throttle Body and it sits near the rear of the engine infront of the firewall. On the left side of the TB in the pic, is the rounded, air flow intake opening. Your air intake tubing(travels along side passenger side of engine) from your air box/air filter housing near the radiator and travels back to the left side of the Throttle Body and is connected to the Throttle Body air inlet port by a large clamp. This clamp is what you loosen/unscrew, then pull off the air intake tubing from the Throttle Body and just set it to the side out of the way. You can now start cleaning the Throttle Body thru this open air intake port on the TB. You must use and buy a can of "Throttle Body Cleaner" (about $8) made specifically for this part/cleaning. Just inside the TB air intake port, is a flapper/butterfly that you can flip open. Use your finger just to push it open to see how it operates and when you go to spray the TB cleaner inside of the TB, use a short section of clean, solid PVC tubing(to protect your hands from the cleaner) to push the flapper open while you spray the cleaner into the TB. Before using the cleaner, read the directions on the can thoroughly and follow them. Apply the cleaner with the engine turned off! Don't use the whole can in one application, maybe just use a 1/4 quarter can or so of it will do. Place a clean rag right under the open mouth of the TB air intake port to catch any cleaner back flow from the TB cleaning, then gently wipe up any left over cleaner from the mouth of the TB port. Do not scrub or rub hard inside of the TB port, just dampen up any cleaner. The inner wall parts of the TB have a special coating on them and scrubing hard could remove it. Once done spraying the TB cleaner into the TB, re-install the air intake tubing and tighten up the tubing clamp. You can let the cleaner sit for a few minutes before starting the engine. It may take several tries to start the engine, but it should fire up, then let it run for a few minutes. My personal preference is to take the vehicle out for a high speed drive on the highway right after the cleaning, to help blow out any remaining particles or gunk inside the TB from the cleaning. You are now done with the TB cleaning unless you need a more thorough TB cleaning as described in "Sybertigers" post link. Any other questions on this, just ask and hope it helps you.

 

[03 Explorer Iowa]

Exproblems, thank you so much for the instructions! I will be hopefully attempting to do this tomorrow night. I do not have the socket wrench needed to get the engine cover off or the cleaner yet, so I will be purchasing them tomorrow after work, as long as the weather isn't horrible (we are supposed to be getting 6-7in of snow starting tonight into tomorrow afternoon). Took me a few minutes to locate the TB, although the instructions on my air flow tube was helpful (it says "TB with an arrow pointing directly at it ) I am still planning on taking the car in to the dealer on Saturday to make sure that everything is good.

I still don't get why this problem would all of a sudden happen after the dealer had it for a day, but if $10 and 1 hr fixes my problem, I am not going to waste $200+ on having the dealer clean out the TB for me.

I did look at the links that were posted, but none of them seem to fit the bill. Car idles fine except for the whistle, and no CEL has come on yet. Tried turning the key to on/off a few times before starting it, to see if it was a fuel pump issue, and that also didn't have any affect on the starting, so I am somewhat confident that it is the throttle body that is causing the issue, but won't know for sure until I open it up and take a look.

Thanks again for all of the help!

 

[Exproblems]

Exproblems, thank you so much for the instructions! I will be hopefully attempting to do this tomorrow night. I do not have the socket wrench needed to get the engine cover off or the cleaner yet, so I will be purchasing them tomorrow after work,

I still don't get why this problem would all of a sudden happen after the dealer had it for a day, but if $10 and 1 hr fixes my problem, I am not going to waste $200+ on having the dealer clean out the TB for me.

I did look at the links that were posted, but none of them seem to fit the bill. Car idles fine except for the whistle, and no CEL has come on yet. Tried turning the key to on/off a few times before starting it, to see if it was a fuel pump issue, and that also didn't have any affect on the starting, so I am somewhat confident that it is the throttle body that is causing the issue, but won't know for sure until I open it up and take a look.

Thanks again for all of the help!

You are welcome on the help and I wouldn't worry about doing the Throttle Body cleaning till after the snow storm hits and the weather is better.
I would still look for the bad tubing elbow with a hole in it as described to you by Sybertiger. The link he gave you has photo's in it of the tubing elbow with a hole in it and where to find in on the motor. At least check it out for a hole, just to rule it out as the source of your problem. I do remember reading posts in the past on that "hole in the tubing elbow" issue and it is a fairly common problem on the earlier model V-8's.
Make sure you tell the service manager at the dealership that your current problem wasn't there until right after his guys worked on your Explorer last and see what he says. He should at least have his mechanic take a look at it for you at no charge to you, just to rule out his mechanic didn't accidentally cause this issue while working on your vehicle.
My theory on dealerships and some unfamiliar repair shops in general, is that if they know a customer is willing to spend big money on car repairs (as you previously did) and that customer isn't very knowledgable on the workings of a car, they may in some instances take advantage of you by either telling you that you have another problem with the vehicle (whether one is there or not) or that they tampered with the vehicle during a prior repair job to cause another issue to arise in a short period of time. They do this knowing you will come back to them and shell out the money for the repair. Basically, squeezing you for cash $$$. Dirty scum bags is what I like to refer to them as. I'm not saying the dealership has done this to you, but there is a reason why many in here refer to Dealerships as "Stealerships". Good luck with the TB cleaning and the whistling noise issue.

 

[SyberTiger]

If you READ THIS THREAD under "Cleaning the IAC" you'll see how that acoustic insulator cover is removed off of a 2002 4.6L V-8. While you have the cover off you may as well inspect that rubber elbow hose that is infamous for causing problems. You may decide that now is a good time to clean the MAF sensor and you can see the instructions for how to do that in the same thread. It only takes 10 minutes or less to clean the MAF sensor.

Once you have that cover off simply just use a flat head screwdriver to loosen that hose clamp holding the air intake hose on the throttle body and wiggle the hose off. You could choose to take off the entire hose assembly including the MAF and the air filter cover.

When you take the air intake hose off of the TB there really isn't much to clean. You can clean the opening to the TB. You can clean the butterfly plate. Rather than use an object to hold open the butterfly plate you (or a helper) can grab the accelerator linkage and twist it to open the butterfly while you clean. You can stick your fingers past the butterfly as far as you can and try to clean but really that isn't much of a cleaning. After all, you've barely cleaned into the TB opening at this point. To give a more thorough cleaning and to check to see if you have a plugged EGR port you'll need to look inside the TB. With the butterfly plate open use a flashlight to look into the TB. Look inside at the opposite side of of the TB. You should see a hole about 9" in that is 1/2" in diameter. If you see a bunch of crude instead of a nice clean port hole then you need to clean it out. This is how I cleaned my EGR port hole.

I took a 7/16" wood dowel and poked into the opening of the port hole. If yours is clogged like mine was then twist the 7/16" wood dowel back-n-forth to get it to go slightly into the hole.

Next, make a giant Q-tip using a 3/8" wood dowel and part of a clean rag. Tape the cloth to the wood dowel using electrical tape. Spray TB cleaner into the TB deep inside using the straw that comes with the can. Try to douse the EGR port hole. Soak the tip of the giant Q-tip with TB cleaner and proceeded to clean out that EGR port hole. Next, vacuum out any crumbs. I taped a plastic hose to the end of my vacuum cleaner with electrical tape and sucked all the gunk out. When the cleaning is complete the 7/16" wood dowel will easily moved in and out the hole. The process of cleaning out the EGR port will only take you 5 or 10 minutes.

That is pretty much all the TB cleaning you can do without removing it from its mount point on the engine. I hope this helps and good luck with it. It rather is simple, inexpensive and quick to do.

Please come back and let us know what that EGR port hole looked like before you cleaned it.

 

[03 Explorer Iowa]

Well, I had to take my Explorer in earlier than my appointment because I couldn't get it to start for a while this morning and my CEL came on last night when I was attempting to get my engine cover off. There were multiple issues that I got fixed today: Replaced #3 Coil, #8 Spark Plug, Battery, and the IAC. Apparently I had a cell go out in my battery, my coil was about dead, a had a bad spark plug, and my IAC was bad. Total for my visit: $1,010, ouch!

I didn't even think I was going to make it to the dealership this morning because the car was shaking the whole way there, and to complicate matters, we got 5-6 inches of snow yesterday and apparently everyone here thinks that you need to drive 20mph or less on plowed streets... Service guy (the only one there that I can stand) assured me that all of the issues were taken care of, and I think that I made my point very clear this morning when I dropped it off. When I came to pick it up they remembered me from this morning and were very quick to get my car back to me (I was rather short with them this morning).

Hopefully this is the last major issue for at least 6 months. I know that the car is 10 years old and there are going to be issues, but the last three weeks were a bit excessive ($1400). They did point out to me again that I need to replace my exhaust and quoted me $545 for it, but there is no way in hell that I am going to get my exhaust there, and certainly not anytime soon. If I'm going to replace it, it's going to be aftermarket, and it might cost me that much if I get SI/DO, but I doubt that it will even cost that much.

I do still plan on cleaning out my TB, but it will not be until it is warmer outside (it's 10 degrees here when I get home at 5pm without windchill factored in). I also need to borrow my step-dad's socket set, because I bought the screw driver looking sockets and I am not strong enough to loosen the bolts. Thank you everyone for your help, and I am definitely going to use this thread when I do get around to cleaning my TB!

 

[SyberTiger]

$1,010, ouch!

That is some major OUCH! I figure $35 for the coil, $10 for the plug, $75 for the battery, and $75 for the IAC. Or about $200 in parts if you ordered them online. Actual time and effort to do the work is 30 minutes. This of course if you did the work yourself. I understand the stealership wants to "diagnose" then charge the big bucks for their "expertise". I bought a new Motorcraft IAC on Amazon recently. The delivered price was $75. However, when I called the local stealership they quoted the same exact part at $195.

Oh well, at least everything is working the way it should now. But now you know you have a great resource to help you in the future to resolve a lot of these issues for less money.

 

[03 Explorer Iowa]

I most certainly do! If the weather wasn't so crappy and I had more time, I'm sure that I could've done some of the work myself, but with 6 inches of snow, work, and christmas parties this weekend, I didn't have time for my car to leave me stranded somewhere an hour from home... Here's to hoping I get some money for Christmas!

 

[Exproblems]

There were multiple issues that I got fixed today: Replaced #3 Coil, #8 Spark Plug, Battery, and the IAC. Apparently I had a cell go out in my battery, my coil was about dead, a had a bad spark plug, and my IAC was bad. Total for my visit: $1,010, ouch!

They did point out to me again that I need to replace my exhaust and quoted me $545 for it, but there is no way in hell that I am going to get my exhaust there, and certainly not anytime soon.
)

Wow, what a rip off! They got you for about $800 bucks in labor for around and hours worth of work and I'm being generous on the labor time here. Each of the 4 items they changed could have been swapped out in around 10 minutes or less each. Look at your receipt and see how many hours they charged you for the labor work and how much they charge $$ per hour for labor. Now you know why they are called "Stealerships"!

Just curious, what did they say was wrong with your exahust system and why it needs to be changed? Is your exhaust very loud like you have a hole in your muffler? These Explorers come with Stainless Steel exhaust systems so they shouldn't rust out, but the hanger rods that are welded to the pipes that the exhaust system hangs from are not stainless steel, they do rust. New hanging rods can be welded on to the exhaust pipes. I'm assuming they are telling you need a new rear half of the exhaust, middle pipe, muffler and a tailpipe. $545 sounds excessive. I can get a new stainless steel rear half exhaust for $250- $295 installed at 2 different Muffler shops here in Buffalo, NY.

 

[Exproblems]

I bought a new Motorcraft IAC on Amazon recently. The delivered price was $75. However, when I called the local stealership they quoted the same exact part at $195.

.

I have a similar story on how dealerships mark up parts they sell. I have a friend who has worked at the Towne (Ford) Automotive Group where I live for over 30+ years. In the early 2000's, I needed a new (1) front 4x4 hub for my previous Explorer, dealer price was $310 + tax. With my friends employee discount, the hub was $209 + tax and the dealership still made a 10% profit on the part. The dealerships make a killing on parts.

 

[03 Explorer Iowa]

Wow, what a rip off! They got you for about $800 bucks in labor for around and hours worth of work and I'm being generous on the labor time here. Each of the 4 items they changed could have been swapped out in around 10 minutes or less each. Look at your receipt and see how many hours they charged you for the labor work and how much they charge $$ per hour for labor. Now you know why they are called "Stealerships"!

Just curious, what did they say was wrong with your exahust system and why it needs to be changed? Is your exhaust very loud like you have a hole in your muffler? These Explorers come with Stainless Steel exhaust systems so they shouldn't rust out, but the hanger rods that are welded to the pipes that the exhaust system hangs from are not stainless steel, they do rust. New hanging rods can be welded on to the exhaust pipes. I'm assuming they are telling you need a new rear half of the exhaust, middle pipe, muffler and a tailpipe. $545 sounds excessive. I can get a new stainless steel rear half exhaust for $250- $295 installed at 2 different Muffler shops here in Buffalo, NY.

They want me to replace from the cat back, everything including tailpipe. The original owner (I'm the second) put an aftermarket one on there so it's loud anyways, but a lot of the pipes are starting to rust pretty bad (I looked myself), including the muffler, and it is getting increasingly louder and rough sounding. I am thinking it's been on there for at least 5 years, but I believe the first owner put it on right after he bought it.

I am planning on taking it to a truck specialties place that I took my F-150 to for all of my aftermarket things, like remote start, cab lights, exhaust, etc. I trust them and spent quite a bit of $$ there customizing my F-150. I am going to have them take a look and see what they think needs to be replaced, because I trust them way more than the dealership to not screw me over. LOL They only charged me $180 to install (including part) my Flowmaster Super 44 that I put on my truck, and they only charge $30/hr in labor. I am looking at probably the same muffler, but possibly SI/DO with stainless tips if I can afford it. I am thinking it will run me about $300-350 if I go there (assuming that everything needs to be replaced), and the sad part is that the dealership will still try to get me to replace my exhaust even after I get the new one

 

[Exproblems]

The original owner (I'm the second) put an aftermarket one on there so it's loud anyways, but a lot of the pipes are starting to rust pretty bad (I looked myself), including the muffler,

I am planning on taking it to a truck specialties place that I took my F-150 to for all of my aftermarket things, and they only charge $30/hr in labor.

and the sad part is that the dealership will still try to get me to replace my exhaust even after I get the new one

I got it, the aftermarket exhaust system was not made of stainless steel and thats why it is rusting out. Good luck with the truck specialty place. Years ago, my cousin was a mechanic at a place that specialized in off road truck modifications. A place called "Quad 4x4". He is now a truck mechanic, safety supervisor for "National Grid", the electric power company in this area.
If I were you, never step foot in that crooked Ford dealership again. Good luck with the new exhaust system.