Lets talk Coil Overs

[RockRanger]

So whats the deal on them. There is emultion, Resivoer, Bypass, Air. Whats the difference from brand to brand. Sway away, fox, king, radflo, and more. What makes one better then another. What opions do you need. What spring rates do you run on an explorer/ranger. What length are running, likes dislikes.Anything else I amissing added to the tech in this thread.

 

[DB_1]

Going to make the jump are we?

If I were to do it over again i'd probably go with 2.0"x 14" travel shock body instead of the 2.5"x 14" travel simply because of clearance issues. I'd like to have them angle in at the top but there's not much room to do so in the engine bay. I probably could've done without the reseviors too since I don't do lot of high speed pre-running. They add about 50 bucks each shock and you have to find a place to mount them so that's something to think about.
A little homework will get your springs rates where they need to be, sway-a-way has a spring calc. on their site but when I ordered my shocks I went with what King recommended which was 200 on the secondary/250 on the primary.

As far as brands go I don't think you can go wrong with any of the major brands, although i've heard the Rancho c/o's aren't as tunable/adjustable as others. It pretty much boils down to price and preference.

 

[Rick]

I agree with David. Unless you're running a pre-runner/race truck you won't notice a difference between the different brand shocks. Rockcrawling doesn't stress the shock nearly as much as other motorsports do.

My Bilstein's have held up 100% since they were installed. No leaks or any other problems.

Bypass shocks are great for high speed running and jumping. They give you three or four stages of adjustability and can really help smooth out the ride. They offer nothing for rockcrawling.

I haven't looked into air shocks. I'd like to hear some info on those... Maybe Iz will chime in with info on his.

 

[Exploderpilot]

i have a set of 2.5x16 for sale........fox race series with reservoir.
anyway, all the reservoirs are for is to increase fluid capacity so the shocks performance doesn't fade as they heat up. as hydraulic fluid heats up, it starts to lose it's viscosity and the shocks will start to lose their damping ability. with a nice big reservoir, there are no worries. rick was 90% right about the bypasses, what they actually do is offer different amounts of damping as the shock piston passes through the body. usually, a bypass
shock will have three bypass tubes, one for rebound, and two for compression. the rebound tube is used to get max downtravel quickly, and once the shock extends to a certain length, the piston will slow down.
on the compression side, the first tube allows the weight of the truck to come down at a certain speed, and once the piston passes the second tube, it will travel at a slower rate, sort of like an internal bumpstop. but like rick said, they don't offer much for rockcrawling.

 

[Exploderpilot]

i would definately spend the dough for bilstein, fox or kings. their top of the line products are all very similar in quality and price, so take your pic! stay away-from sway away

 

[IZwack]

I haven't looked into air shocks. I'd like to hear some info on those... Maybe Iz will chime in with info on his.

When tuned, the ride is quite amazing due to the wacky spring curve which you can twist and bend to your liking with the proportion of oil, nitrogen, valve stacks, and the "negative" spring in the shock (this spring would have to be custom as Fox only sells one type). The shock itself is very easy to rebuild and replace parts if needed.

Speaking of tunning, I hope Spas gets this one particular video to me soon because that demonstrates an air shock that is NOT properly tuned. In that video (taken at the last M&G), my truck thought it was a trophy truck and upon acceleration, the front would rise about 10 inches -- wacky ride! If such a suspension were taken off road, it would probably flip the vehicle with a little bit of gas on an uphill rock climb.

I drive my truck maybe 2 or 4 times a week and after about 2.5 months and one drive to Paragon (360 miles total to and fro), the shocks needed to be refilled with nitrogen as the ride height decreased by about 2-inches. But this is not a big deal as recharging takes just a few minutes.

Like any other shock, air shocks "leak" oil at the bottom -- thats just how they lubricate the bearing and bearing seal. So they must be recharged with oil too every half a year or so (or at least thats my guess from the measurements I took of the oil volume).

Also, like any other shock, try not to get brake fluid on the shock. It eats up the seals and that is my problem right now and that is why I have my air shocks dissassembled (http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172089).

The initial cost when compared to a coil-over is a somewhat lower as a pair of Fox 2.5 Air Shock can be had for $700. Don't bother looking at the 2.0 Air Shocks because those won't support an Explorer's wieght. Of course, in the long run, you will need to acquire a nitrogen tank, a high-pressure regulator for Nitrogen (max air shock PSI = 350), the proper hose, and a schrader fitting. A gallon of Fox 5-weight oil also typically costs around $30.

 

[RockRanger]

i would definately spend the dough for bilstein, fox or kings. their top of the line products are all very similar in quality and price, so take your pic! stay away-from sway away

Whats so bad about sway away?

 

[RockRanger]

IZ,

How are the airshocks for highway driving? Do you have fading after they heatup? The $250 tag on air shocks is sure apealing compared to $300 + springs plus other parts.

Im not sure how long my leafs will last being negativly arched as they are currently being. Might as well plan ahead now.

 

[IZwack]

IZ,

How are the airshocks for highway driving? Do you have fading after they heatup? The $250 tag on air shocks is sure apealing compared to $300 + springs plus other parts.

Im not sure how long my leafs will last being negativly arched as they are currently being. Might as well plan ahead now.

I'm not sure what your Ranger's weight is, but I think that $250 price tag per shock is for the 2.0's. I bought the 2.5's for the front suspension because the 2.0's just dont support enough weight. Even Bill Vista's rig (The Wolf) was running at extreme PSI's because the 2.0's can only support about 1,000 lbs (some say 900) per shock. Maybe the 2.0's will hold up in the rear where there's not much weight but I would maybe get on a scale first and see how much weight is on each tire. The 2.5's BTW are about $350 each (hence $700 for my total).

As for the highway driving, umm .. better have some "oh shlt" handles One time in Paragon, I wasnt paying attention and accidentally ran a red. I finally realized it halfway through the intersection and slamed the brakes and WOW -- my heart beat went from dead to OMFG!! I of course have no anti-sway bars and my truck was just leaning to one side with the back end sliding out (as I've never really dialed in the rear proportionging valve). Nothing bad happened but that event made me realize that life was worth living.

 

[Stic-o]

IZ,

How are the airshocks for highway driving? Do you have fading after they heatup? The $250 tag on air shocks is sure apealing compared to $300 + springs plus other parts.

Im not sure how long my leafs will last being negativly arched as they are currently being. Might as well plan ahead now.

Pair of Wild Horse coils S170
Pair of 15" BBCS for the front $200

Total $370

 

[Josh S.]

My latest "aquirement" ...

 

[IZwack]

The video below shows the weird characteristic of a pair of Air Shocks on the front suspension having too much Nitrogen and not enough oil volume.

(Quicktime MOV file)
http://www.explorerforum.com/files/15238/izwack_weirdSuspension.mov

Much thanks to Spas for taking this video and sending it to me.

 

[tdavis]

Here's what I've heard/learned:

1) 14" is all you really need in a rock crawler. Anything more, and it can get really difficult to make work right.

2) 14" springs are cheap, available in many spring rates, and common. 16" and longer are more expensive, have less choices of spring rate, and can be hard to find.

3) rockcrawling spring/vavle rates do not equal Baja desert running spring/valve rates.

4) The link design in the suspension is as important, as the shock/coil over used.

5) Air shocks react differently at different temperatures. Cold can make them sluggish, heat can make them worthless.

As for what I run in the rear of the zuk - 14", aluminum bodied Rockequipment emulsion coil over, with 80lb/110lb 14" coils.

I'm considering what to do with the front - probably the same parts.

 

[IZwack]

5) Air shocks react differently at different temperatures. Cold can make them sluggish, heat can make them worthless.

LOL well I can't really argue with you too much because you have more wheeling experience than I do.

I have witnessed the Explorer's air shock slightly sluggish on cold nights. However, the video above was taken on a cold night (i think around 40 F) and it seems to react pretty well to the acceleration. But as for the heat, I have trailed my Explorer on warmer days when the SAS was first finished and it didnt become "worthless" -- yet Of course air shocks arent going to stand up to the same level of heat as a coil-overs with reservoirs but rock crawling and trail riding doesnt typically heat up shocks too much (compared to say desert running). And as for engine heat, well the fan keeps most of that away.

Anyways, more info on Air Shocks (Vista's article is on the 2.0's): http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-Airshox/index.html

 

[Michael]

2.0 X 14 Reservior Kings with 250 over 350 springs. Valving is being run as was set up by King based on the weight of my Explorer, works great for crawling the AZ trails, the washes at THaven, and street running.

One of the best things you can do to get spring rates and valving right on is to get an accurate weight of your truck. I went to a local truck stop and used the CAT scale to get a front and rear weight on it.

 

[Josh S.]

The video below shows the weird characteristic of a pair of Air Shocks on the front suspension having too much Nitrogen and not enough oil volume.

(Quicktime MOV file)
http://www.explorerforum.com/files/15238/izwack_weirdSuspension.mov

Much thanks to Spas for taking this video and sending it to me.

That was sweet!!! hahaha I want some!

 

[Exploderpilot]

as far as my comment about sway away, it is the only company i have heard anyone complain about. i know people with every other brand, and have never heard a complaint about any one of them, but i have heard of sway aways blowing fittings out, bottoming, etc....

 

[lycan91]

this is a great thread. i need to buy some shocks and this is opening a new spectrum. i think i only will do 2 inches in lift w/ shackles and coils seats or springs, seeing as how its my DD. not trying to hyjack just love the info.

 

[Rick]

I have witnessed the Explorer's air shock slightly sluggish on cold nights. However, the video above was taken on a cold night (i think around 40 F) and it seems to react pretty well to the acceleration.l

I hope you were kidding cause I have never seen setup with such a lack of rebound damping

 

[IZwack]

I hope you were kidding cause I have never seen setup with such a lack of rebound damping

I guess thats becuse most of the volume in the chamber was N gas and not much oil. I think rebound damping partly depends on oil volume.